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hello

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and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and we're going to be just discussing

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what i say is one of the top

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five ufo encounters uh i talk about that

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quite a bit

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on this show the socorro incident

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and uh we have uh i have some friend

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researchers that have been on this

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for uh i think since when i first met

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them a long time

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and that is ben moss and tony angio

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angiola

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and the name of their book is called not

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of this world the socorro ufo landing

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with humanoids

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comma witness lonnie zamora that's i

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know that's a long title

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but uh you can shorten up if you want to

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um when you think of this case

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you actually think of ray stanford uh or

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i say i do he wrote

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such a great book uh called socorro

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saucer and the pentagon saucer in the

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pentagon

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pantry uh way back he was the first

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researcher

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on site there and

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and it's a wonderful book but there's a

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ben and tony decided to take a fresh

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look today

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and see what they could find for

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evidence

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to socorro i think four times

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um just a few things first um

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uh i would like to talk about i don't

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know if anyone saw the news where it's

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possible that they're

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they might find us or they've been

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finding an amount of

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phosphine um on the in the atmosphere of

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venus of all places

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um and that's usually produced by uh

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bacteria

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so uh it's possible it could be a sign

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of life and

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it's hard to believe you know 900 degree

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fahrenheit planet

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hey if life can exist there somehow good

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for life i say i want to thank everyone

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who listens to the show

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and everyone behind the scenes uh we

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have an active facebook page as a matter

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of fact we're actually

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uh uh simulcasting over there as well

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and uh that's uh actually facebook at

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uh slash podcast ufo and check it out

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over there there's

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postings we try to get up all the time

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and uh

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our blog over at podcastufo.com is

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called

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before they were ufos um and that's

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about uh flying saucers and the

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origin of that that's by charles learn

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he does an audio blog which i'm posting

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here on youtube

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and uh in the podcast feed every week

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now and it's

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becoming pretty popular people really

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like those audio blogs

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uh i do encourage you to read the text

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version though because there are links

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there and you know before i start

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this show with my guests tonight uh i

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have

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uh an announcement and as i was talking

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here i saw a text just come in from

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james fox

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he's just been real busy today and the

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reason why he's real busy

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is because he's announcing today

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that uh the phenomenon will be available

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uh through digitally for downloads

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starting on october 6.

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and you can pre-order right now on apple

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tv amazon prime

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or vmo and voodoo actually

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so i'm going to run the trailer right

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i knew this was breaking news for the

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we need to accept that we are not alone

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in the universe the federal government

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all these years

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has covered up everything it's very very

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there have been visitation crashed craft

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material recovered

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it was not anything from this earth all

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the public has a right to know there's a

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tremendous

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resistance i guarantee every one of them

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knows that this event happened

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hiding these dark secrets even from

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elected presidents

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they came running up here in such a

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panic child can't make that up

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declassified government documents

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confirm ongoing ufo incursions

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at nuclear weapons sites are you saying

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that there's some evidence that still

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hasn't seen the light of day

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i'm saying most of it hasn't seen the

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light of day these things are

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wow that's uh that's what i got to say

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about that wow

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and here we are with tony and ben

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welcome to the show guys

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how's it going martin great great thanks

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for

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come out too aren't you well we've been

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waiting uh

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you know i've had so many conversations

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with uh with james about it

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and um it's been a long time coming i

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know

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it's been a long journey as all of his

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films are but

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you're always rewarded at the end with

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what james produces

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yes i know um i've said to him uh

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a few times that my favorite ufo movies

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are his

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you know they really it's it's such high

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quality and uh he just texted me again

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he said he can't keep up with text and

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emails today

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he just can't keep up with them so uh

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which is really

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great i can't wait for that to come out

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and also a lot of people i've been

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trying to talk to randy nickerson about

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the aerial phenomenon

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um trying to trying to coax him into

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doing something similar get that out

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while there's a captive audience you

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know

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it's all done it's in the can it's ready

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to go but he's uh

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you know he is working with um

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distributors trying to figure out what

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to do with that

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and it's a tough time it's hard to

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figure out what to do

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but we have a captive audience yeah with

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with a movie and knowing james and

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having had discussions with him

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it's unbelievable how many people are

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involved in it and how much goes in

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to production and and getting everything

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right and all the traveling you know he

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was the only person i think to film

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from the wall great wall in china with

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drones he

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was you know it was up there with the

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chinese government so the fact that he

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uh

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he was able to tie alice together i

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think if you're a fan of james movies

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this is going to be

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the best yet yes on people's couches and

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just sleep forever and uh james is a

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digger

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yeah he's like a journalist he's like

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you know

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woodward and bernstein of ufology

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yeah yeah and i talked to

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lee spiegel uh today too he he's uh he's

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driving right now otherwise he'd be on

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to announce it

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um and he might pop on next week but

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yeah it's great so i

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uh as i mentioned in the monologue

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uh socorro is one of the

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i think one of the top five ufo cases

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you know mostly you got it it's mostly

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because oflani zamora

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but um you know because of his honesty

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and his

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you know fourth righteousness his

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forthrightness and

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and all that uh you know what i'm trying

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to say wow i'm stumbling on words

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but um i think it is

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there's there's so much um because now

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you know there were other witnesses i

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know that no one got

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the uh the person from colorado they

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didn't get their name and

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unfortunately that would have been a key

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witness but anyway let's

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let's pretend that uh a listener because

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i have a lot of new ones

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have no idea what we're talking about

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when it comes to

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the socorro case in 1964. so

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why don't you give them an overview of

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what happened

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let me put tony on the spot and have him

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do that for us

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okay tony um i'll try to keep it

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uh brief no that you don't have to we

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have two hours

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so lonnie zamora he was this great

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police officer in secord in mexico

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who was on random patrol in the town

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when he noticed

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uh a known person of interest came by to

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rapid pace who was speeding and so

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and he knew the guys he goes after him

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as they're leaving the small town of

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socorro

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he spots this bright object coming

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across the sky and

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he doesn't know what it is it could be a

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plane going down

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and it was headed toward the dynamite

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shack um

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just over these hills and this arroyo

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he lets the speeder go he diverts his

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brand new police car that he's only had

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for about a week

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under this dirt road which was which is

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surprising for

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first for a police officer to do that

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unless something

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is of grave importance he

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starts gunning his car up this hill he's

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risking damaging his car but

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you know this is this is you think

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someone might be hurt

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or an overturned car or something like

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this three tries to get up this hill

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he gets up there he he's about i think

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about 150 yards away when he spots what

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looks like an overturned vehicle of some

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sort

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when in fact it was this um what people

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described as an egg-shaped craft

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and you could see three of the four

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struts from his point of view but he

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also saw these two figures and

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white coveralls which looked like little

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people

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and he would go on to describe him later

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as

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vehicle and got out of his car

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and by that time what he heard upon

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exiting his

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police car was the slamming of like a

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like a

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submarine type of uh hatch if you will

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a tank yeah or a tank yeah

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and so he gets close enough to this

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thing about 25 30 feet

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uh 36 feet according to your video and

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uh he could see the

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this emblem on the side of the craft

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which we'll talk about later

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but this thing this this blue flame

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knifes into the ground

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uh and it's not producing any smoke or

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anything what you're seeing is dust

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uh described by by witnesses because of

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the force of these subatomic particles

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if you will

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this loud roar which was heard by many

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many people

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uh this object rises to about 25 feet or

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so then goes completely silent

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lonnie says it sat there for a while

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it's egg shaped

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egg shape um and it starts moving

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slowly near the dynamite shack not over

284
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:20,160
it kind of off to the side

285
00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:22,000
and it starts increasing in speed

286
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:23,920
completely silent

287
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:27,839
and going up in altitude at a rapid pace

288
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:28,959
by that time

289
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:31,279
he was radio went for radio and for help

290
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:33,279
to officer shabbos who shows up the last

291
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,240
minute

292
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:36,000
he sees something he doesn't really talk

293
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:37,760
about it keeps it quiet

294
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,880
this thing was going hypersonic

295
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,480
in a short period of time and there's

296
00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:44,399
nothing that we had then

297
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:47,360
or today that can replicate uh such and

298
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:48,880
such an event

299
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:52,000
and uh yeah so

300
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,959
lonnie was uh petrified and he told his

301
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:57,360
buddy uh sergeant chavez what happened

302
00:12:01,190 --> 00:12:00,399
and the rest is history from then on we

303
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,200
had the

304
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:04,000
air force showing up and uh private

305
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,360
investigators

306
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,600
our friend ray stanford showed up on

307
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:09,440
this tuesday on the 26th

308
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,200
by that time and uh four days later

309
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,600
this is a case that has uh eyewitness

310
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,360
testimony from a credible

311
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,839
uh police officer there's physical

312
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:21,519
tangible evidence left behind from

313
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:22,240
imprints

314
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,959
of the the feet that were attached to

315
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:26,480
this craft

316
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:30,320
um there were uh

317
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:32,079
many people that came up later and said

318
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:33,760
what they heard and

319
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:37,040
yeah the bottom line is the reason this

320
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,000
is probably one of the best

321
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:41,040
evidential cases in u.s history is

322
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,320
there's a it was uh

323
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:46,800
a case that was investigated by the fbi

324
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:47,839
the cia

325
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:51,040
and every force with project blue book

326
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,360
involved in 1964

327
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:55,440
but the fact it was witnessed by such a

328
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,079
credible person as lonnie zamora

329
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,240
kind of brought it out to the public and

330
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,240
the interesting thing about the case is

331
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,800
it had the papers really fast so the

332
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:06,320
government actually didn't have time to

333
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,279
clamp down on

334
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,360
the information because the next day it

335
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,360
was in el defensory chieftain

336
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,920
the socorro local newspaper and the

337
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:16,079
editor was on site snapping pictures and

338
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:16,399
so

339
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,240
like a roswell type scenario

340
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,959
where you could kind of clamp down on

341
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:24,880
the data it was out there and there was

342
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,279
a lot

343
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:28,240
and you know and the book that we wrote

344
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,440
it was a

345
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,120
there's a lot of data showing that it

346
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,959
hit the paper so fast

347
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:35,120
that they didn't have time to really

348
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,480
come in and say whoa

349
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,240
slow down this was a vertical takeoff

350
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,000
vehicle or the

351
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:42,560
you know the apollo lander or that kind

352
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,279
of thing so

353
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:45,279
it's one of the it's probably a training

354
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:46,880
case for the government to

355
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,639
realize that if they don't jump on

356
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:50,720
something quickly it'll go wrong for

357
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:51,680
them

358
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,519
and also it was kind of like

359
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,199
because it was in between various

360
00:14:02,710 --> 00:13:59,120
military bases that are known

361
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:02,720
to exist in new mexico white sands now

362
00:14:06,629 --> 00:14:03,839
mogardo and

363
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:06,639
it's just a very active area for them to

364
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:08,480
be surprised by this

365
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:11,120
was probably kind of a slap in the face

366
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:11,839
to them

367
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,320
to all of a sudden be surprised by a

368
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,399
vehicle landing in that area

369
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:18,560
where you know we tested the lunar

370
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:22,079
module out in white sands and we had

371
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:24,000
trinity site where we test the atomic

372
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,440
bomb and it's a very

373
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:28,240
very protected area one of the things

374
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:29,519
hang on just one second

375
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,880
ben i'm i'm gonna have to tell you when

376
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,880
you speak can you pull forward a little

377
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:34,079
bit because you're a little bit weak in

378
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:34,800
the mic

379
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:38,480
sorry all right go ahead tony in terms

380
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,880
of uh how it got out so fast

381
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:43,199
when we went to socorro and we went to

382
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,320
the uh

383
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:46,800
to the archives and anybody can do this

384
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:49,199
we found so many different newspapers

385
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,240
archived that said the same story

386
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:54,000
uh and like like he said there's no way

387
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,680
they could have caught it

388
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:58,320
in time in order to uh to mask the way

389
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:00,480
that it draws well

390
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,680
well um so uh one of the things that's

391
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,279
that's kind of baffling you mentioned

392
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,680
you know the craft lifts up uh when it

393
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,519
lifts up it makes the big roar and the

394
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,279
flame and all that

395
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:13,120
and then it just sits there with no

396
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,120
noise no flame

397
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,839
and moves along it kind of is baffling

398
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,320
how our propulsion system would have to

399
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:22,240
you know shoot a flame out i mean you'd

400
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,519
think it would be propulsion i'm not

401
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,279
sure what what else it would be

402
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:27,680
to lift it up you hear about our our

403
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:28,320
crafts

404
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:30,160
that go to the moon you have those two

405
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:31,759
kinds of engines you know you have

406
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:34,079
yeah take off engines for travel engines

407
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,279
for landing

408
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:38,160
so is it possible that this socorro

409
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:38,959
craft

410
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,199
is not as advanced as maybe some of

411
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,040
these other ufos that we've seen but

412
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,279
still way more advanced than our own

413
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:47,279
because we still cannot replicate what

414
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:48,639
was described

415
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:52,320
at socorro but is it possible that it's

416
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:52,959
the model t

417
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,480
version of the future you know yeah

418
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,120
because you know we see we see uh uh

419
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:01,279
ufos that are made of plasma

420
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,759
trans figuring and changing shape and

421
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:05,279
things like that i consider those being

422
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:06,839
a little bit more advanced

423
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,920
perhaps um whereas the socorro crap is

424
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:11,600
still more of a nuts and bolts kind of a

425
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,560
thing

426
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,320
you know i know there was we'll talk

427
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:15,920
about the insignia because that you know

428
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:16,399
that was

429
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:20,560
controversial but also uh did he

430
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,959
about the the the figures that stood

431
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,320
about four feet tall

432
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:27,440
the two figures in white overalls um

433
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,399
did did he not tell that did that not

434
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:31,920
get out at the time

435
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,120
that part of it i got out pretty quick

436
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:37,440
that there were diminutive

437
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,560
child like was the description

438
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:43,279
um you know he said look lonnie said

439
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:44,880
that he looked like small figures

440
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,320
or small children and when uh

441
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:50,240
ray had shown up with dr heineck on the

442
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,079
site they were near

443
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,800
a greasewood bush there so which was

444
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,959
eventually i think slices in half by the

445
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:59,040
blue flame but when they were standing

446
00:17:01,189 --> 00:17:00,480
next to it he had a point of reference

447
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:01,199
so when

448
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,480
heineken and ray were out there lonnie

449
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,000
said they were about this tall

450
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:08,240
and he held his hand about four feet off

451
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,199
the ground

452
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:11,520
and has been well documented by you know

453
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,039
ray brought it up and i

454
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:15,360
i did some research i don't know of any

455
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,240
programs

456
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:19,039
besides in vietnam when we sent small

457
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,600
people

458
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,439
into the ground into these tunnels that

459
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:22,720
the vietnam

460
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:25,679
had created i don't know of any program

461
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,000
of

462
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:29,200
pilots that uses small people to fly

463
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:30,799
and would have people that are

464
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,799
approximately four feet tall to operate

465
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:35,200
a flying vehicle and so that was the

466
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,320
thing that probably

467
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:38,799
lining up the most was they didn't look

468
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,600
human

469
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,200
and you know another interesting aspect

470
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:43,360
that we discovered while we were there

471
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:46,000
is that that particular creosote bush

472
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:46,559
that

473
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:50,160
was sliced in half by the blue

474
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,880
particle beam so to speak of the exhaust

475
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,080
that particular bush

476
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:57,360
is exponentially larger than anything

477
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,840
else

478
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,760
on that site we have plenty of

479
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:01,120
photographs to show this we have the

480
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:02,480
original one from

481
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,640
1964 and from our our various trips

482
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:08,880
and we just it's kind of like travis

483
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:09,679
walton's

484
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:12,880
uh tree that the ufo touched that

485
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:15,039
jennifer stein measured the tree ring is

486
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:16,559
kind of the truth

487
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:19,280
facing where the ufo came in right and

488
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:20,559
we're finding this

489
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,559
possibly to be true with socorro because

490
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,000
of that yeah

491
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,440
when i was recently there uh last

492
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:29,600
april for a show that's about to come

493
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,360
out on travel channel but

494
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:33,360
i i i'm probably not supposed to talk

495
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:34,480
about it so i won't mention

496
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:37,919
who i was with but uh um we noticed that

497
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:40,640
the creosite bush and bush greasewood i

498
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:41,200
get the

499
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,280
confused as to what it actually is yeah

500
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,039
ray will probably get mad if i get it

501
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,630
but uh it was huge it was like it was

502
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:52,000
bigger than anything out there and i'm

503
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:52,799
thinking wow

504
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:55,520
if that is an evidence of radiation and

505
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:56,240
how are you

506
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,480
spot though uh because you the gps

507
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,160
coordinates we locked them in

508
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:05,600
a couple of years like 2004 a while ago

509
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,799
and also i went with um you know we went

510
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:10,000
with john larson

511
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,840
who's with el defensory chieftain we had

512
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:13,600
permission for the owner

513
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:16,480
and then when we went for the tv show

514
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,200
this past

515
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:19,760
year we also had permission from the

516
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,240
owner

517
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:22,000
well not to mention that bush and that

518
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,280
location is so

519
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,679
yeah it's very distinct that the rocks

520
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,720
are still there

521
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:28,480
it's kind of a wat there's water that

522
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,880
rolls down through that location

523
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:33,120
and it's look there's a church that is

524
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:34,320
new there but i

525
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:35,600
really don't want to give away how to

526
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,679
get to the site but it's almost

527
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:39,280
obliterated but um

528
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,200
we're always at the correct site

529
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:43,520
everybody that all the witnesses

530
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:46,400
um the gbs gordon's right john larson

531
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:47,120
knew where the site

532
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,720
was you know paul harden and

533
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,240
it just you know the photographs that

534
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,400
were taken to 64 match up perfectly we

535
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,919
even parked our car

536
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:58,160
in the same spot where lonnie parked his

537
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,120
car

538
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:01,360
back in that day so we we know we're at

539
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,480
the right spot

540
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,280
it's just completely almost weathered

541
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,679
away now except for the ring of rocks

542
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,679
that are around the four strut locations

543
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,120
of the craft

544
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:13,600
now another thing uh i thought was very

545
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,960
interesting is that

546
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,799
when they looked for footprints they

547
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:18,840
only found like round

548
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,240
prints are you familiar with that

549
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,159
there was the ladder prints but they

550
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:25,520
were small

551
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,960
little i researched this heavily for the

552
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,919
book and i

553
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,919
i didn't want to get into it just like i

554
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:33,440
didn't want to get into the calcified

555
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:34,000
sand

556
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:35,679
which there are documents that said

557
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:37,600
there was calcified sand

558
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,400
but i it just kept the more i researched

559
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,000
for the book and the more

560
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:44,400
tony and i did our homework the more we

561
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:45,679
realized there were just

562
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,440
more and more documents and it's just

563
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:49,679
like with the craigslist file that rob

564
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:51,520
mercer had i just couldn't put all that

565
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:52,720
in the book and

566
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:55,760
and afford to print it but the uh there

567
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:58,080
was a couple of things the round circle

568
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:01,440
was from possibly a ladder which came

569
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,000
down

570
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:04,240
and then shifted once as weight came

571
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,799
down the ladder as ray says in his book

572
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,799
and then there was kept mentioning these

573
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:09,840
paw prints

574
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,400
and they were kind of like almost like

575
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:14,000
the paw of an animal

576
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:16,240
and they were not human they were not

577
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,360
round they were just

578
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:20,159
weird and the same thing was reported in

579
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:21,120
another case

580
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:24,480
near the same time which may may not be

581
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,200
true

582
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,960
but it was weird because lonnie did say

583
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:28,320
there were two creatures standing next

584
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:29,039
to

585
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,280
looking under the grasses if it was

586
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:33,360
having mechanical difficulties

587
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,520
so they were probably wearing some type

588
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:37,200
of gear that

589
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:40,240
created this weird print um

590
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,120
i've seen it as two parallel bars i've

591
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:44,960
seen it as like a paw print that

592
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,360
a lion would make but they were

593
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:49,440
different from the two round prints of

594
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:49,760
the

595
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:52,799
ladder that was extended and it's not

596
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:53,520
mentioned

597
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,320
much and even you know the fbi agent

598
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,600
told him

599
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:59,360
you don't want to mention much about

600
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:01,039
creatures because people are going to

601
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,159
think you're nuts it was

602
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:04,320
kind of an honest way of saying you know

603
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,440
to protect yourself

604
00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:07,440
don't talk too much about the two

605
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,960
creatures you saw standing next to the

606
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:10,400
vehicle

607
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:12,480
but as we know now you know it's all in

608
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,840
the book and

609
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:16,080
later in life lonnie started saying that

610
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,520
you know whatever they were they weren't

611
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:19,280
from here he went from white coveralls

612
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,320
to saying

613
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:23,039
those creatures were not from here yeah

614
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,000
i thought that

615
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:26,640
i thought for him to actually say that

616
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,280
um

617
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:30,240
was very brave of him to actually you

618
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:31,600
know i mean he was brave all the way

619
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:32,320
through

620
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:35,520
um now there was another landing north

621
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:38,640
of there uh within the same time frame

622
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:39,280
is that

623
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,120
book la madera

624
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:46,159
yeah yeah that was you know

625
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:47,840
it's funny because there was so much

626
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:49,440
about that case that

627
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,960
that would have to have been a whole

628
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:52,880
other investigation

629
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:56,720
to go after that because a lot of the

630
00:23:01,669 --> 00:23:00,080
a lot of the things matched up ray kind

631
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:01,679
of felt it was a hoax and

632
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,240
and that kind of put us off on it but a

633
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:06,240
lot of the data was the same but as i

634
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,520
dug into that

635
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,039
there seemed to be evidence they didn't

636
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,880
even know about socorro

637
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:12,400
when this was reported in their

638
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:15,760
newspaper i'm not sure if that's true

639
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:18,320
um there's only two two things that

640
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:19,039
happen

641
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:21,120
this was manufactured to resemble

642
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,720
socorro incident

643
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:24,480
or this actually happened and was just a

644
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:26,480
continuation of the same craft

645
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,320
but we really didn't have the time or

646
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:30,320
the funds to

647
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:32,000
that would have been to do that story

648
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:33,600
right would have been you have to

649
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:34,159
investigate

650
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:35,679
just like we did socorro and ended up

651
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:37,520
producing a book that took

652
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:41,120
five years of our lives to go

653
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,240
so you think it could have been a

654
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:44,000
copycat like trying to trying to get

655
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,640
attention

656
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,720
possibly i'm not sure there were other

657
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:48,960
witnesses that said this thing was like

658
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:52,559
four or five hours in a field butane

659
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,919
you know the descriptions of an

660
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,360
egg-shaped craft it's funny how they

661
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:56,720
describe it back in the day

662
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:58,880
they say football shape like an upside

663
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:00,159
down bathtub

664
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,960
butane shape like a telephone pole but

665
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,640
they're all trying to describe a shape

666
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:05,520
that's not a

667
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:09,039
flying saucer so uh there were multiple

668
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:11,279
witnesses the police did find evidence

669
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,320
on the ground

670
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:15,120
they said there was a smell of kerosene

671
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,760
which

672
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,200
they could have been burning trash there

673
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:19,360
for years for all i know it's just not

674
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,799
something we looked into

675
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:22,799
and considering how much time and after

676
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,600
effort we spent into socorro

677
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:27,600
you know if i really wanted to dig in we

678
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:28,640
could dig in but

679
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:31,279
it's it's almost it's just too old at

680
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,240
this point

681
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,919
it's hard enough investigating something

682
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:35,360
from you know

683
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:37,039
64. it's hard enough investigating

684
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:38,960
something that had a day or two after

685
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,000
something uh in 64. right

686
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,880
right um now i i have had up on the

687
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,559
screen i'll pull it back up

688
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:49,679
um this i know you can't really see but

689
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:52,480
you can see if you can see i i know ben

690
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:53,120
you said you

691
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,720
you're you're half blind without your

692
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:56,400
glasses but

693
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,840
yeah all right so you can see that

694
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:00,240
insignia

695
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,240
is is not what uh

696
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:06,720
is what was uh swapped out and can we

697
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:10,080
talk a little bit about that part alone

698
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:14,080
because i know that that lonnie had did

699
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:15,200
a sketch

700
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,520
and then supposedly that sketch was

701
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:19,039
swapped out with another one

702
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:22,240
and lonnie was told to sign it is that

703
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:26,159
is that right yeah more or less

704
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:29,039
the air force was trying to say that

705
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:31,120
they wanted to prevent a copycat so

706
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:33,919
they came up with this fictitious symbol

707
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:35,600
that was umbrella shaped

708
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,640
and did not truly depict

709
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,559
uh the symbol that was seen by lonnie

710
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,919
because lonnie wrote it down right away

711
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:43,120
on a napkin

712
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:45,919
and on top of that he had a young man of

713
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:46,480
his name

714
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,799
uh who was an artist who drew it with

715
00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:50,480
the correct symbol who later had to

716
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:51,679
erase it

717
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,559
and and change it was harold harold baca

718
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:56,080
and so uh

719
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,919
if you just do a little bit of digging

720
00:26:02,470 --> 00:25:59,760
into the old newspapers you see

721
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,480
what was originally printed which was

722
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:04,480
what appears to be an upside down v

723
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,400
with three bars uh either through it

724
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,720
is this it right here tony that's not it

725
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:12,640
either that's so that's that's

726
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,679
that's the one that's the fake yeah

727
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:17,120
there were several of them you know

728
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:18,480
there's like three or four of them but

729
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,520
the correct symbol

730
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,559
is uh we actually have a hat yeah

731
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,559
i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna pull up

732
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,159
the i just found the

733
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:28,400
your your symbol that you came up with

734
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,600
and i know uh

735
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,200
you know people are wondering why this

736
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,200
is a big deal and i wanna

737
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,200
and uh tell me if this is it when i pull

738
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:37,520
it up uh the one that says genuine

739
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:40,559
right yeah ray stanford uh

740
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:43,600
did all this research on the symbol

741
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:46,240
and based on he was very close with with

742
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:47,200
lonnie too and

743
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:49,760
ray speaks very fluent spanish and when

744
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,840
lonnie first saw this he was describing

745
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:54,080
this in spanish over the radio

746
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,360
and in spanish it's

747
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,440
kind of hard to determine if it's

748
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:01,200
exactly below the inverted v

749
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:03,120
or does that mean through the inverted v

750
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:04,559
so it's kind of interpretive so you've

751
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,470
as you can see here it's three lines

752
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:11,760
kind of going through it so if you

753
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:12,880
imagine it's either

754
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,840
that or three lines below it i think ray

755
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:16,960
did a really good job

756
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,360
putting this together so to speak based

757
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:20,960
on the descriptions but

758
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,399
at the end of the day the symbol doesn't

759
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:23,919
really matter you know what i mean it's

760
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,880
like it could be

761
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:27,120
eat at joe's or stay away from this area

762
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:28,159
because it's really dangerous you're

763
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:29,600
going to get slice and half like this

764
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,149
the thing is and i go over this

765
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:40,080
extensively in the book

766
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:42,399
um and the book was uh is a labor of

767
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:43,360
love it's not

768
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:46,640
uh it's not for money because it cost me

769
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:49,760
a fortune to print myself but

770
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,360
basically ray contributed the chapter

771
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:56,080
most of the chapter on the symbol and

772
00:28:04,950 --> 00:27:56,399
the

773
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,960
abide by this lie

774
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:06,960
and i agree with that and when i

775
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:08,720
researched the symbol

776
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:12,000
the initial report in el defense for

777
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:13,840
chieftain said that lonnie

778
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:17,840
wrote the symbol on a paper sack

779
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:20,240
yeah that he found the desert and so i'm

780
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,200
like wait a minute

781
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:22,960
i've never heard that anywhere but it's

782
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:24,559
right there and they'll defend for a

783
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:25,440
chieftain

784
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,480
and so the paper sack became a page

785
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,880
from what turned out to be maybe a boy

786
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:32,159
scout manual that

787
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:35,440
dave rudiak who also allowed me to

788
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,799
to reproduce in the book his analysis of

789
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,840
the symbol

790
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:41,440
he said this is something that might be

791
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,520
laying around the police station

792
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,760
so to make a long story short it's the

793
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:47,520
longest chapter in the book about the

794
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:48,559
symbol

795
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,159
is that uh captain holder who was on the

796
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:54,559
scene white sands a branch commander

797
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,159
of the base there he was on the scene he

798
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,159
drew a fake symbol

799
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,480
his son told ray that and ray has it in

800
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:04,159
his books of course also in pentagon

801
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:05,919
pantry that my father obscured the

802
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,039
symbol

803
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:10,399
had and the signature of lonnie zamora

804
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,840
is different from the way the symbol is

805
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,520
written it's two different handwritings

806
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,360
but he had to sign that as a contract to

807
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,360
like you you know it's god

808
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:20,159
country family that type of order of

809
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:21,279
things so

810
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,799
even to his family he would lie about

811
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,640
the symbol forever because there was a

812
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:26,799
contract you have the government

813
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:28,480
and they were still thinking i think at

814
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:30,159
this point that this was a secret

815
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:30,720
project

816
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:34,399
but the fact that holder obscured the

817
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:34,960
symbol

818
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,679
is pretty well known and then you know

819
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:39,279
that's the interview that's on

820
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,399
youtube about that and so

821
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:44,799
i believe the symbol is important simply

822
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:46,320
because the inverted v

823
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:49,200
with the three bars and ray agrees with

824
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,159
me

825
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:52,399
was maybe and it was in the center of

826
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,919
the egg shaped craft where the blue

827
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:54,960
flame came out

828
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,960
it probably just means don't stand here

829
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,559
this is radioactive

830
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,720
you'll get fried when this engages

831
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:02,480
because the v is pointing to the

832
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:03,360
thruster

833
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:06,000
the three bars might signal radioactive

834
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,360
waves of radiation

835
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:10,159
or whatever red it was in red red is the

836
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,159
color of fire of blood of

837
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:14,320
you know maybe danger so i really think

838
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:15,440
it was like a dome back

839
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:17,279
up sign on a truck we don't stand by a

840
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:18,559
truck when it backs up

841
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:20,960
it basically meant there's a powerful

842
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:22,000
engine here

843
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:24,799
of whatever type of propulsion and when

844
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:26,320
engaged you don't want to be anywhere

845
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:27,440
near it

846
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:30,320
well you know um i i know there was

847
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,120
there was a lot

848
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:33,760
of to do about the symbol itself and and

849
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,399
one of the

850
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,919
the reasons i think it's important is um

851
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:40,559
you know trying to research something

852
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,760
similar to that

853
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:44,000
in any type of you know language or

854
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,960
anything

855
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,720
like that now you mentioned it might be

856
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:48,720
like a caution type sign

857
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:51,520
which very well could but has anyone

858
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:52,559
like tried to

859
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,840
decipher any type of language or

860
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:57,039
anything like that

861
00:31:00,789 --> 00:31:00,240
we went through um we had some friends

862
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:00,799
also

863
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:03,679
that were um uh checking the periodic

864
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,399
tables

865
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:06,960
yes there was what is it called the

866
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:07,519
table

867
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:10,720
um what is the uh

868
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:13,039
alchemist there's an alchemist table

869
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:15,279
that has an inverted v with one bar

870
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:17,039
and then we found a document that had an

871
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,880
inverted view with three bars that was a

872
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:20,240
treasure map

873
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,000
and it's some type of spanish symbol

874
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,159
but it wasn't related at all and the way

875
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:28,720
that heinek drew it in the photo i have

876
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,440
in the book

877
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:32,000
that ray had that happened after ray

878
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,039
wrote his book where

879
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:35,360
ray and james fox are at the national

880
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,360
archives and ray's holding up

881
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,320
the piece of paper that heineken drew it

882
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,760
has the inverted v

883
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:43,760
but it has a bar at the top a bar in the

884
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,320
middle of a bar underneath and

885
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:48,799
that symbol it just can't be found

886
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:49,760
anywhere

887
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:52,399
and that's why we kind of the conclusion

888
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:54,240
is that it's just maybe a warning sign

889
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:55,840
or something like that but alchemy it

890
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,320
just means some type of strange

891
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,799
metal it just doesn't make a whole lot

892
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:02,240
of sense

893
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,600
from a visual standpoint um and tony had

894
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:07,360
the idea that it might not be static it

895
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:08,880
could the symbol could change depending

896
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:09,679
on what it's doing

897
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:11,840
imagine like a like a you know you have

898
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:12,880
a mac mouse

899
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,960
that lights up when you move it and you

900
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,559
don't there's anything on the mouse it's

901
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:17,840
like glass

902
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,080
and different symbols pop up is it

903
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:22,240
possible that that

904
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:25,679
shell of this ufo is like

905
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,279
kind of like an iphone where it can

906
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:29,600
change symbols at random

907
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:33,120
on that white glassy surface you know

908
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:35,360
yeah it could have been a not a static

909
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,120
sound maybe a dynamic symbol maybe when

910
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:39,039
it lands it turns green

911
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:41,039
maybe it says india joe's when it's near

912
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,039
a restaurant

913
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,640
now had did any other people that saw

914
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,559
this craft ever mention anything about a

915
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,080
symbol or did they just say they saw

916
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:52,000
this flying low or

917
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,519
funny enough no one's ever mentioned the

918
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:56,159
symbol actually well

919
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:59,200
somehow somebody mentioned one and one

920
00:33:03,830 --> 00:32:59,919
report

921
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:03,840
that i that i put in the book and um

922
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:07,440
the lorenzo's um you know um

923
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:10,640
carol or is i never pronounced that

924
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:11,600
right

925
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,640
i think carol and yeah the lorenzas

926
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,480
who were there at the site actually at

927
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,960
the time before ray before anybody

928
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:19,919
actually

929
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,799
who found the fused sand but basically

930
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,000
they found a report

931
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,720
and i found it and put in the book where

932
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:27,600
a pilot

933
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:30,480
had said ice i'm seeing an egg-shaped

934
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,519
craft

935
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,679
that passed me and the and he was a

936
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,679
military air force pilot

937
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,240
and white sand said reacquire the target

938
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,840
he reacquired and he goes it

939
00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:41,600
it looks like what lies the more

940
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,519
recording because what do you mean

941
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:45,440
because it has the same symbol he

942
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,120
doesn't describe what the symbol is

943
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:49,120
but at the time this was reported the

944
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:50,880
only only symbol known was

945
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,399
the inverted v of three bars so that is

946
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:56,720
recorded and white sands actually says

947
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,000
they had radar

948
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:00,480
tracking this object so it's a pretty

949
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,600
good report

950
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:04,080
and what's unusual is in ufo lure as you

951
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,120
know martin

952
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:07,039
there's not a whole lot of cases that

953
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:08,639
have a symbol on the side of the graph

954
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,599
at all

955
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,720
a lot oaxes the umo and things like that

956
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:14,159
but there's not

957
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,760
it's very rare yeah

958
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:19,359
about the only one i can think of off

959
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:20,879
the top of my head

960
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:24,240
right no i i i agree it is

961
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:28,079
um so what did you uncover

962
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,599
you know i mean you're revisiting the

963
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:31,839
book you're you went there four times

964
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:32,240
you

965
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:35,280
dug through uh let's talk about

966
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:36,800
some of the things that you uncovered

967
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,040
that uh probably weren't known

968
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,200
originally you know at the time of this

969
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:43,760
sighting tell them about the woman

970
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:47,200
the house on the canal yeah this lady we

971
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:50,720
came across who yeah she's passed away

972
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:53,200
who had a house that had like a porch

973
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:54,320
she would

974
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,560
take a look at the river at night and

975
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:58,800
she said that she witnessed

976
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:02,000
uh what lonnie described hovering

977
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:05,440
along the river down from the reservoir

978
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:05,760
that

979
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:09,359
comes from albuquerque and her house was

980
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:10,400
situated

981
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:13,440
just before this craft uh

982
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:16,320
veered away from the water into the

983
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:17,280
arroyo

984
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,119
towards noble grinders guessing right

985
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,720
towards the bulgarian grassy you see

986
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:22,320
there's things coming off the bottom of

987
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:22,560
it

988
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:23,920
i don't know if they were sparking and

989
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,599
falling down there was also another

990
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:27,680
young man who claimed that he also saw

991
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,960
things coming off of this craft and

992
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:33,280
you know hear safe stories that they

993
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:34,240
picked up

994
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,520
what looked like circuit boards and

995
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:39,119
things like this but we've not found any

996
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,560
of this evidence and

997
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:42,720
not seen any of that yeah though the

998
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:44,240
when we were at socorro this is the

999
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,200
difference between

1000
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,839
researching this from behind a computer

1001
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,359
and being on site

1002
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,520
um this woman was just sitting on a

1003
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,280
porch and there's a reservoir and we

1004
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:54,880
tracked we went out there and

1005
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:57,760
tony found it pretty easily which i'm

1006
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,960
terrible navigating i think we have a

1007
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,000
gopro

1008
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,240
we have an hour of footage of me

1009
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,240
randomly talking about

1010
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:06,400
what but we found there's a reservoir

1011
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:08,079
that points towards albuquerque and

1012
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,359
comes down and when you

1013
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:11,520
leave the reservoir you're pointing

1014
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:12,640
towards

1015
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:15,760
the gas station where the witness

1016
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:17,440
for opal grinder said the thing almost

1017
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,079
hit his car and this

1018
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,760
local resident the thing you find out

1019
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,280
about square when you're there is a lot

1020
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,800
of them have never left they were there

1021
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:26,960
in 64. they remember what happened

1022
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,560
a lot of people don't leave socorro it's

1023
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:30,400
a nice town they

1024
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,839
you know unless they graduate from the

1025
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,760
school and go there those aren't people

1026
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:34,880
actually live there but

1027
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,760
the local residents stay there and so

1028
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:39,839
this woman had passed but she said she

1029
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:40,240
said

1030
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,160
it came down the reservoir which is a

1031
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:44,560
depressed area with growth around it

1032
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:47,680
like most waterways are it came down

1033
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:48,079
there

1034
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,960
glided silently passed by and then

1035
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,240
headed towards where

1036
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,720
the witness that opal grinders gas

1037
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:56,079
stations saw it

1038
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,160
and nobody had heard this story and it

1039
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:00,720
was just randomly it's like oh yeah this

1040
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,200
lady you know i knew her i knew it was

1041
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:04,320
and it was one of these things i never

1042
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:05,599
made the paper

1043
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:07,680
and so we had a couple of interviews

1044
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:10,640
like that where we came across people

1045
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:13,280
uh in the book i have um patrick

1046
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:14,079
richard's

1047
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:16,079
encounter with lonnie where he discusses

1048
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:17,839
what the true symbol is

1049
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:19,839
we actually pointed to a napkin and

1050
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,760
pointed towards the inverted v of three

1051
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:22,880
bars

1052
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:26,640
and then i have um another scientist

1053
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:29,680
mike moore who ran into lonnie

1054
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,599
right before he passed away and lonnie

1055
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,440
took him to the site because mike moore

1056
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:40,790
radiation scientist and was concerned

1057
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,280
about having cancer from radiation so

1058
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:44,880
he took line to the site and i have that

1059
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:46,320
in the book that's an encounter nobody's

1060
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,320
ever heard of where he

1061
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,720
told uh the scientists about what

1062
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,680
happened

1063
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:52,640
and he didn't know anything about

1064
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:54,400
sequoia didn't care about ufos or

1065
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:54,960
anything

1066
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:57,040
but he ran into him in a gift shop in

1067
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:58,400
socorro when they were both trying to

1068
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,599
get some something

1069
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:02,240
kind of jewelry made and he took line to

1070
00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:02,720
the

1071
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:05,359
described what happened and asked him

1072
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:06,720
look could i have been poisoned with the

1073
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,839
radiation

1074
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:09,760
so i have that whole story in the book

1075
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:11,440
and so there's a lot of things we

1076
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:14,720
ran across in our investigation that

1077
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,720
add to the whole point of the book was

1078
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,560
to bring it up to date

1079
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,960
incorporate raised data and ray wrote

1080
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,480
some great stuff

1081
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:24,880
uh for several chapters that are current

1082
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,839
and up to date

1083
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,440
with what has happened since he

1084
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,320
published this book in the late 70s

1085
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:32,480
and i had to bring in the craigslist

1086
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,440
data

1087
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,520
and all the stuff that tony and i did on

1088
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,119
site and so

1089
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:40,240
i really just wanted to do a 2020 story

1090
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,359
of what actually happened with this case

1091
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,119
because it's always wrong on tv

1092
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:47,760
it's almost all sightings was the last

1093
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:49,359
tv show to get it right

1094
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,000
this is a long time ago ufo hunters did

1095
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,839
a good job i liked the episode with bill

1096
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,200
burns and those guys

1097
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,720
they did a pretty good job and that was

1098
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,480
the last interview before lonnie passed

1099
00:39:02,230 --> 00:38:59,599
away

1100
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:02,240
but the the important thing was to tell

1101
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:03,920
the story right

1102
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:07,359
to cut through all the bs so talk about

1103
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,160
the hoax

1104
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,960
theories dismiss those talk about the

1105
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:12,000
investigation

1106
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,000
the craigslist files that were found by

1107
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,760
uh rob mercer

1108
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:18,079
and bring all that together up to the

1109
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:20,079
you know the unfortunately the

1110
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:22,480
year of covet 19 and tell the story

1111
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,119
correctly

1112
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:25,040
so future generations can know exactly

1113
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,320
what happened

1114
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:28,880
yeah that's good so let's talk about rob

1115
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:29,680
mercer's

1116
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:33,040
uh find which was quite amazing you know

1117
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:34,640
he he found these

1118
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:38,320
uh files on on craigslist

1119
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,160
and there was all kinds of information

1120
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,400
it was from um i can't remember

1121
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,320
the it was a major retired major or

1122
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:46,320
something

1123
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:49,760
yeah yeah and

1124
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:52,079
and uh they actually he he said well we

1125
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,599
have some more

1126
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,440
and so he even got more out of that and

1127
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:57,359
now that uh that's housed down at

1128
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:00,400
dave marlar's uh library down there

1129
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,240
which is which is amazing so what was

1130
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:04,240
found in there in regards to socorro

1131
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:07,359
and those papers well

1132
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:10,079
you know rob uh shared all of that file

1133
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:11,440
with us before

1134
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:15,119
he sent it to um mr greenwald's site the

1135
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,000
black vault

1136
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,240
which does a great job of housing ufo

1137
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:20,319
materials

1138
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:22,960
but basically it was when he reached out

1139
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:25,359
to him he was retired and

1140
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,400
the files were found i think by his son

1141
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,000
i can't quite remember but the house was

1142
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,440
being renovated it was

1143
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:33,599
in a garage underneath some stuff but it

1144
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,440
was blue book files it was files that

1145
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,880
weren't in

1146
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:39,760
the the relay to sequoia there were 182

1147
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:41,920
pages related to socorro

1148
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:44,800
wow and when and when kevin randle did

1149
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,760
his good

1150
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:47,760
he did a great book on the same case

1151
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:49,680
encountered the desert uh you know i

1152
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:52,880
i consider kevin a friend

1153
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,400
but the thing about the files were that

1154
00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:58,240
even though a lot of people say they

1155
00:41:01,829 --> 00:41:00,079
weren't in the blue book files

1156
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:01,839
they were written by the blue book

1157
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,319
investigators about this case

1158
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,640
so to me they are blue book files they

1159
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,160
just weren't included in the

1160
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,720
official file that came out and so i put

1161
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,839
all this in the book

1162
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,400
to explain you know they miss a lot of

1163
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,920
stuff there are a lot of things left out

1164
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:17,440
of the files there are a lot of things

1165
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,800
that weren't included in the official

1166
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,480
report on socorro

1167
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:22,800
that blue book investigated and shows

1168
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:24,560
you the time and effort that they put

1169
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:25,680
into it

1170
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,040
spent god knows how much money and every

1171
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:32,160
fbi caa d a i don't think the i existed

1172
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,720
but

1173
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,560
all the intelligence agencies and the

1174
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,400
joint chiefs of staff were all asking

1175
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:38,640
questions what happened what can you

1176
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:39,520
tell us

1177
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:42,400
give me the information and so those

1178
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:45,440
files show the details that they went to

1179
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:47,839
and the length of time and money that

1180
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,720
was spent

1181
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:50,400
to try to figure out what happened the

1182
00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:51,839
president wanted to know everybody

1183
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:52,960
wanted to know

1184
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,560
and the answer to this day is still

1185
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,240
unknown

1186
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:58,640
yeah yeah it's amazing well i think it's

1187
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:59,359
kind of

1188
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:01,200
interesting that you know ray figured

1189
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:02,800
that uh

1190
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:05,839
aulani was about 36 feet from the object

1191
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:06,079
and

1192
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:09,440
in the blue book files it shows 150 feet

1193
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,839
you know i wonder why the discrepancy

1194
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:13,200
something like that

1195
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:15,040
yeah blue book not only got a lot of

1196
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,720
stuff wrong you can't even read half the

1197
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:18,400
stuff they write because their grammar

1198
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:19,839
is support

1199
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,160
really would get names wrong they would

1200
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:23,599
have incomplete sentences you could

1201
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,040
understand what they were saying

1202
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:27,440
sort of shorthand writing in a way i

1203
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:28,079
like that

1204
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:31,119
not only but but with the wrong facts

1205
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,200
the wrong information it was a lot of

1206
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:34,880
notes that were just disjointed

1207
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,640
it was funny because um when

1208
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:41,359
the one story i got from the physical

1209
00:42:45,349 --> 00:42:42,960
scientist mike moore

1210
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,359
that lonnie took down to the site he

1211
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,880
seemed to indicate that he was even

1212
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:48,480
closer than the 36

1213
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:51,680
feet and it's interesting because

1214
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,920
ray had paced it off with dr heineck and

1215
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,359
got 36 feet

1216
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:57,200
that's that's close enough to see

1217
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,640
everything you need to see

1218
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,800
about the symbol and everything else

1219
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:02,480
regards to that but when

1220
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,560
when lonnie was driving up and was

1221
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:06,480
looking out his window

1222
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:09,839
at the creatures i think he got

1223
00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:12,319
really closer than he indicated and even

1224
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,839
in michael moore's statement that he

1225
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,240
wrote for the book for me he said

1226
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,000
that lonnie said look there are a lot of

1227
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,000
things that he had

1228
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:22,480
referenced without saying ray's book but

1229
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:24,000
he said

1230
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:26,800
he kind of indicated that i was closer

1231
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,280
than

1232
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,319
what i even told ray so

1233
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,800
it was interesting because i think at

1234
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:34,000
that point when he's looking out the

1235
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:35,760
window what he thought were

1236
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,560
people in trouble at some point he

1237
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:40,160
realized he weren't even

1238
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:41,920
here and also when we spoke to lonnie's

1239
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,319
daughter uh she indicated that his

1240
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,319
response to what happened was so

1241
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:47,680
profound

1242
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:51,040
in speaking to the to the his pr uh his

1243
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:54,240
priest at the local church and

1244
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:57,599
uh he was he was so you know

1245
00:44:01,990 --> 00:44:00,400
confounded about creation and he just

1246
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:02,000
you know it changed his life so much

1247
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:02,400
that

1248
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,960
obviously he saw more than what he says

1249
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:06,000
yeah when you're looking at something

1250
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,960
that's four foot tall

1251
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,800
and you're looking at what appears to be

1252
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,720
a down craft

1253
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,160
you kind of don't have a whole lot of

1254
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,760
choices as to what you're looking at

1255
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,000
and the fact that they when he first had

1256
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:17,920
white coveralls and then changed that

1257
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,960
later in his life

1258
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:21,040
i think white coveralls was a way to say

1259
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:23,119
look i don't even want to think about it

1260
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:24,480
or talk about it

1261
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,079
i'm just going to say it was this white

1262
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:28,560
blur and kind of leave me alone at that

1263
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,680
point which

1264
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,240
burns the fbi agent suggested to him to

1265
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:34,319
do to stop talking about the creatures

1266
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:35,680
because you're just going to catch grief

1267
00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:37,359
about it

1268
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:38,560
well speaking of that since you

1269
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,119
mentioned it what type of grief

1270
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:43,119
did lonnie i mean he was very well

1271
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,160
respected as

1272
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,280
a some a man of you know an honest man

1273
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,680
a great police officer but did he get

1274
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:51,119
ridicule

1275
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,640
yeah the kids in the town they would

1276
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:54,560
taunt him all the time

1277
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,560
really where uh and even some of the

1278
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,240
adults um as well

1279
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,640
he decided to change careers and he was

1280
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:02,000
working at the

1281
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,720
local refuge um oh yes i heard that yeah

1282
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,880
yeah he got calls from all that special

1283
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:09,920
he had offers

1284
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:13,920
and um a lot of this i found out by

1285
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:16,160
for re when research and when we

1286
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:17,760
researched for the book was he had

1287
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,720
he had japan and australia and all these

1288
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:22,319
places were calling him for

1289
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:24,319
interviews and wanted to pay him money

1290
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,640
and do the documentary and do this and

1291
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,800
he was like i'm just sick of it i just

1292
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,319
don't want to hear about it

1293
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,119
yeah he got to the point where i i have

1294
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:35,200
a lot of hyperlinks in the book about

1295
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:37,040
his interviews that we found during our

1296
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,319
research but

1297
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:40,400
basically he just said you know if i

1298
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:42,000
could do it over again i'd never tell

1299
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,359
you that i ever saw anything

1300
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:44,880
because he was just sick of it he didn't

1301
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:46,160
want the attention he could have

1302
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:47,920
monetized it he never did

1303
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:50,880
right it wasn't even a one landing event

1304
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:51,520
there were

1305
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,599
multiple landings and the police

1306
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,599
officers and people in town kind of

1307
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:56,960
realized that there's no way they're

1308
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:57,680
going to tell this

1309
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:00,240
story all over again so there was

1310
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:02,720
landings

1311
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,240
there's a whole chapter on uh other

1312
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,960
egg-shaped craft landings so there's

1313
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:09,920
gosh for

1314
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:12,560
20 30 years there's evidence of multiple

1315
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:14,160
egg shape football shape however you

1316
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,280
want to describe it

1317
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:18,000
inverted bathtub type landings in and

1318
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:19,359
around the area

1319
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:21,440
and especially during lonnie's encounter

1320
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:22,400
there was

1321
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,000
incursions and

1322
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,359
you know multiple cities in that area so

1323
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:33,440
it wasn't a one-off event like a lot of

1324
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:34,480
people

1325
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:36,240
thought and even kevin randle when he

1326
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:37,520
interviewed us for his

1327
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:40,319
uh his show he thought it was a one

1328
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,280
witness event

1329
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:43,200
and when you really do your digging it's

1330
00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:44,960
not a one witness event it's a

1331
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:47,599
multiple layer of events that happened

1332
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,000
that

1333
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,480
many people saw in different areas and

1334
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:52,240
times

1335
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,000
you know it's it's really amazing

1336
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:56,240
because uh

1337
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,599
what when i think about you're telling

1338
00:47:02,870 --> 00:46:59,520
me in the area these

1339
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:02,880
egg shake shaped crafts were seen

1340
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:05,680
and you hear this a lot about particular

1341
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:06,319
types

1342
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:09,520
of craft that are seen repeatedly you

1343
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,280
know the belgium triangle

1344
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:13,680
uh you know they're just seen over and

1345
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:14,400
over

1346
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:18,800
a small

1347
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:21,440
geographic area which i think is

1348
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:22,480
baffling

1349
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:25,760
uh because if that craft got here from

1350
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:26,720
wherever it came

1351
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:29,920
why would it stick in one place and not

1352
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:30,720
explore

1353
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,720
it's kind of a big earth you know do you

1354
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,800
ever it was kind of a hotbed

1355
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:36,880
if you consider all the historical

1356
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:38,000
incidents

1357
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:40,079
from the past present and who knows

1358
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,440
what's coming next but

1359
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:44,640
that area mexico to new mexico and you

1360
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,440
can probably draw

1361
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:47,839
lines and figure out you know where all

1362
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:48,480
these

1363
00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:51,760
places have in common but it is

1364
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:53,040
interesting that

1365
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,800
the egg-shaped craft is something that's

1366
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:56,880
been seen throughout history in fact

1367
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,559
i was just telling ben over the weekend

1368
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:00,160
i was visiting my girlfriend in southern

1369
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:01,440
virginia and i saw these

1370
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:05,040
two white spherical looking orbs

1371
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,040
circling each other crossing the sky in

1372
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:08,640
about 12 seconds

1373
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,520
my phone was inside i got the binoculars

1374
00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:13,280
after that trying to catch it again

1375
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:16,559
never came back what classic ufo story

1376
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,920
you know what i mean and so

1377
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,760
uh that to me i was thinking to myself

1378
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,440
wow and that's something i'm not even

1379
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,040
gonna bother recording because

1380
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:25,119
what i just saw something in the sky

1381
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:26,319
absolutely no

1382
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,000
yeah the fact that during some homework

1383
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:33,440
and um it's with the internet it's not

1384
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,079
hard to do

1385
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,079
but there were so many egg-shaped crafts

1386
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:38,000
seen in france

1387
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:41,440
in europe and uh in america but

1388
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:41,920
especially

1389
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:44,720
along this 60 west corridor so when you

1390
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:45,599
look at the map

1391
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,200
and you go from socorro to daytill

1392
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,079
and magdalena and all these places where

1393
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:53,920
all these ufo events have happened over

1394
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:55,040
time

1395
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:56,800
there was evidence of an egg-shaped

1396
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,119
craft reported throughout that area

1397
00:49:02,549 --> 00:49:01,440
not just by civilians but by military

1398
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:02,559
police

1399
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:10,400
and and military people at bases

1400
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,599
and tracked on radar so that whole

1401
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,440
chapter in the book was to show you

1402
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,680
that this wasn't a one-off event and

1403
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:19,280
there were a lot of reports before and

1404
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:21,839
after this event about a shape craft

1405
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:24,000
maybe a similar type of craft being

1406
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,119
reported

1407
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,240
so i really kind of wanted to amalgamate

1408
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,319
all the data we found

1409
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:32,720
from all the years that showed that

1410
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,559
lonnie was just in the middle

1411
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:36,800
of a tremendous event and flap that was

1412
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:39,040
going on at the time

1413
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:41,839
wow now i know there are statistics

1414
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:42,880
where they show

1415
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:45,680
you know for ufo sightings there are you

1416
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,640
know there's

1417
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:48,800
so many disc shapes there's so many

1418
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:49,920
triangle shapes

1419
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:53,440
orbs etc like that do the egg shape even

1420
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,520
come up on a list like that as far as

1421
00:49:59,349 --> 00:49:58,160
a percentage a very small percentage of

1422
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,359
sightings

1423
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:02,240
chapter four the last chapter of my book

1424
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:04,240
is from cheryl costa

1425
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,960
who did an egg-shaped vehicle analysis

1426
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,160
for me

1427
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:11,119
and showed that you know it's rare but

1428
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,280
there are many cases of egg-shaped

1429
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:15,599
craft so it was a perfect ending to the

1430
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:16,640
book for her

1431
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:19,200
chapter she had written this report for

1432
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:20,800
the syracuse

1433
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:24,079
journal in new york and so she allowed

1434
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,880
me to

1435
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:27,280
you know reprint that in the book but it

1436
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:28,000
shows

1437
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,119
egg shame craft or you know egg when you

1438
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,839
do the history of this cosmic egg the

1439
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,440
fact that life you know

1440
00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:37,440
the chicken and the egg however you want

1441
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:38,480
to describe it

1442
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:41,040
it's a cosmic symbol the egg seems to be

1443
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:42,079
a cosmic symbol

1444
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:43,200
and when you're talking about an

1445
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:44,960
egg-shaped flying craft you're talking

1446
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:46,319
about something that

1447
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:49,599
is kind of aerodynamic but without any

1448
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:52,079
lifting agents or anything then you're

1449
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:53,599
talking about some type of

1450
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,200
and this is why we're not all flying

1451
00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:56,960
around a shaped car but you're talking

1452
00:51:02,390 --> 00:50:58,640
about some type of exotic

1453
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:02,400
propulsion which has to be anti-gravity

1454
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:03,920
in some form or another i can't really

1455
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:06,160
think unless it's magnetic or something

1456
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:07,680
but when you have an egg-shaped object

1457
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:10,400
with no air falls no engines no exhaust

1458
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:11,920
no plume

1459
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,480
not even a glow or and possibly a plasma

1460
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:16,319
glow around it or whatever but

1461
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:19,760
that's the type of propulsion which is

1462
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:23,119
unknown and we don't fly if this was our

1463
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:24,160
own tech

1464
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:27,119
in 64 we certainly be seeing egg-shaped

1465
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:28,720
craft flying around

1466
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:31,839
from our military apparatus in

1467
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:35,280
2020. so i still don't think it was one

1468
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,720
of ours and i have a whole chapter on

1469
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,040
this you know about why it's not ours

1470
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:42,000
if any company or government agency had

1471
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,680
produced this in 64

1472
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:45,359
they'd be happy to tell you about it now

1473
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:47,839
and say hey that was ours man we fooled

1474
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:50,800
the heck out of you guys

1475
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:54,079
yeah i'm you know i mean an egg is

1476
00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:57,280
almost like a sphere as far as you know

1477
00:52:01,349 --> 00:52:00,559
pressure um it absorbs pressure very

1478
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:01,359
well

1479
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:04,240
um you know unlike other structures and

1480
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:05,440
who knows if that

1481
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:08,640
plays into exactly you know why this was

1482
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,240
egg-shaped and that was one of my

1483
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:12,000
questions main questions i wanted

1484
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:15,359
to ask you is how long have people seen

1485
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,720
egg shaped crafting you say all the way

1486
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:19,920
back in france a

1487
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:22,640
year many years ago way before that i

1488
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,040
would

1489
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:25,599
venture to even say the dawn of time

1490
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:26,640
yeah yeah way

1491
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:29,280
way way back there it depends on the

1492
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:30,240
tech

1493
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:33,280
they would say

1494
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,440
telephone pole upside down bathtub

1495
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,800
football shaped

1496
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:42,720
but then as you go further back in time

1497
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:46,000
you know cigar shaped uh

1498
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:49,200
uh you know elongated saucer

1499
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,240
you know there's just different

1500
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:52,319
descriptions trying to describe

1501
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,559
something that's more like a

1502
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:56,640
an ellipsoid i mean i've seen even the

1503
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,280
egyptian egyptian carbons of egg

1504
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:01,520
including uh for the cave paintings in

1505
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:02,400
france

1506
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:03,520
that are some of the oldest cave

1507
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:05,839
paintings there's an ellipsoidal

1508
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,160
looking uh carving in the stone

1509
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,400
interesting we're going into break in

1510
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:14,559
two minutes and i just wanted to

1511
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:17,359
because up during the break i'm gonna

1512
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:18,400
i'm gonna run a

1513
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:21,200
lonnie zamora uh audio clip of him being

1514
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:21,920
interviewed

1515
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:25,359
but um let's lead up to that and let's

1516
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:26,160
talk about

1517
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:29,599
lonnie um do you agree with the

1518
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,040
statement i made earlier that

1519
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:34,079
the reason this case uh the main reason

1520
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:35,200
this case

1521
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,480
is so strong is because of lonnie

1522
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,480
chapter four i think it is in the book

1523
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,640
is the nature of lani zamora

1524
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:44,400
so i covered that in great detail

1525
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:46,000
especially after talking to

1526
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:49,839
diana lonnie's daughter and doing some

1527
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:51,520
work tony and i talked to a lot of

1528
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,000
people in town that knew lonnie

1529
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,200
and through our investigative research

1530
00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:59,440
we got a pretty good idea of who lonnie

1531
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:01,599
was and i built a whole chapter around

1532
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:02,240
that

1533
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:06,880
so to understand the nature of this case

1534
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,960
you have to start with who reported who

1535
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,480
was the soul witch you know we spoke to

1536
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:12,400
um one of his best friends paul hardin

1537
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:13,760
and he said that

1538
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,880
no disrespect but lonnie was not clever

1539
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,800
enough to pull off something like this

1540
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,880
as a hoax because he was a simple guy

1541
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:23,040
simple honest guy who just was a

1542
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:24,240
downright

1543
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,240
great police officer and honest person

1544
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:28,240
so and you know he didn't mean anything

1545
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,760
negative about it just meant to say that

1546
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,440
there's no way that his mind could have

1547
00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:33,440
conceived of something this complex

1548
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:35,359
he didn't care about ufos it was not on

1549
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,520
his horizon at all so this is

1550
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:39,040
totally out of contact with the

1551
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:41,119
character of the person

1552
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:42,960
and and you know talking to his friends

1553
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,040
and his family

1554
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,040
in his life he said if i could do it

1555
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:48,960
over i would never have told anybody

1556
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:50,240
this happened

1557
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:52,640
yeah yeah i get that all right well it's

1558
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:53,599
time for us to go

1559
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:56,079
into break and uh this clip that i'm

1560
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,280
going to be playing

1561
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:00,559
is uh is a interview

1562
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,559
with lonnie back in april 24 1964

1563
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:06,880
interviewed by nycaps uh streeter

1564
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:07,839
stewart

1565
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:10,319
oh actually april 29th is when this was

1566
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,150
going up

1567
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,839
after the time i came to this little

1568
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:23,200
road

1569
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:26,400
i heard this big roar blast

1570
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:28,720
we got a dynamite check to the west

1571
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:30,720
there i'll try to investigate maybe i

1572
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,440
thought maybe

1573
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:34,079
blowed up so i started up there real

1574
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:34,720
fast

1575
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:38,480
halfway through it i stuck my head out

1576
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,119
the window

1577
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:41,359
out of the car and i've seen this quite

1578
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:42,640
a

1579
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,440
subject excuse me object

1580
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,599
uh i didn't know what it was at that

1581
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,040
time i thought it was a

1582
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:54,160
car that turned over vehicle that turned

1583
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,240
over

1584
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:58,720
i started off real fast so i could maybe

1585
00:56:02,950 --> 00:55:59,680
help the people

1586
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,960
in the car i went up to it closed about

1587
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:04,400
200 feet

1588
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:08,000
and started touring

1589
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:10,880
when i heard this big noise again same

1590
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:11,760
noise

1591
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:14,480
and the plane coming under it i got

1592
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:16,720
scared by running back i ran about 50

1593
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:18,559
feet from it

1594
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:21,760
uh i

1595
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,440
told myself to the ground to hide

1596
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:27,200
afterwards uh how do you hear the noise

1597
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:30,160
no more

1598
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,480
i just looked at my head to see what was

1599
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:34,720
happening

1600
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:37,040
it was real quiet then and i thought it

1601
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:38,319
quite object

1602
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:41,200
just take off towards the west there

1603
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,240
smooth out

1604
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:44,880
did it leave any kind of a vapor trail

1605
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:46,079
when it took off

1606
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:49,520
also it didn't just quite normal

1607
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:52,160
but it did make a roar at the time you

1608
00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:57,670
and you could actually see the flame in

1609
00:57:05,670 --> 00:56:59,599
under it yes i did

1610
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,510
and you thought there were four of these

1611
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:09,359
uh apparently the wall from the

1612
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,870
i see and when you went back to examine

1613
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:30,000
it what did you find

1614
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:32,079
near where it had been parked well uh

1615
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,280
the bush

1616
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,440
bushes were around their greased wood

1617
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:37,920
grass was still burning

1618
00:58:01,750 --> 00:57:50,710
did the legs go up into the object when

1619
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:04,789
all right i'm back with my guests

1620
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:08,559
tony and ben or ben and tony uh

1621
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:11,920
ben moss and tony and giola and

1622
00:58:15,430 --> 00:58:15,040
we are back guys uh you got me ben is

1623
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:15,440
still

1624
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:18,960
in the bathroom okay

1625
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:21,839
no problem not that we're gonna luther

1626
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:22,559
or anything

1627
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:26,559
yeah okay uh well all right hey

1628
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:29,520
uh tony so let's let's continue on uh

1629
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:30,400
one of the

1630
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,480
things i think is fascinating about this

1631
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:34,079
case is the

1632
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:37,200
the hoax theories and uh who

1633
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:40,319
i know a university perpetuated um

1634
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:42,240
a hoax i believe it was them or there

1635
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:44,480
was one person in particular i think his

1636
00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:46,240
last name begins with the b

1637
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:49,839
um do i have that right it sounds for

1638
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,599
i can't remember ray ray told me about

1639
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:53,200
it yeah ray likes to call him dr

1640
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:56,559
toothpaste i think um

1641
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:58,960
because the last name is colgate called

1642
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:00,079
colgate well c

1643
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:04,880
b c yeah okay so uh basically

1644
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,440
he was doing one of these explanations

1645
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,280
you can't get there from here excuses

1646
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:11,119
and therefore must be a hoax

1647
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:14,160
with absolutely no investigation uh

1648
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:16,079
no proof to the contrary anything like

1649
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:17,359
this so

1650
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,799
uh he was very easy uh to dispel because

1651
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:22,400
at the end of the day he really didn't

1652
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:23,920
want to have anything to do with this

1653
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,799
he was not a not a he didn't have a very

1654
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:28,400
good track record let's say he likes to

1655
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:29,359
party

1656
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:32,559
uh and um he just really wasn't that

1657
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,200
credible

1658
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:36,319
of a person to say anything at all about

1659
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:37,040
this case

1660
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,000
um and then i'm sure details that which

1661
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:42,079
i'm a doctor dr toothpaste

1662
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,599
then just got back that's your

1663
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:45,440
toothpaste colgate

1664
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:47,920
yeah what did he say didn't he say they

1665
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:48,720
put like us

1666
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:51,599
the college students uh did this as a

1667
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,960
hoax and they put like a

1668
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:55,200
video screen up do i have that right

1669
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:56,480
something bizarre

1670
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,640
they were using a car to pull a balloon

1671
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:01,200
no initially i have the whole timeline

1672
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:04,480
in the book initially he said this is

1673
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:06,319
quote verbatim it was a candidate

1674
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:07,839
balloon not sophisticated

1675
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:10,880
that's how he ended this letter and so

1676
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:12,480
he had to build upon that because he

1677
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:14,079
told a lie because his

1678
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:16,079
primary belief was they can't get there

1679
01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:18,240
from here so this has to be a student

1680
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:19,040
hoax

1681
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:20,319
so he didn't have it on any good

1682
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:21,760
authority it was a student host he

1683
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:22,480
basically

1684
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:25,200
assumed it was and the two students he

1685
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:25,839
named

1686
01:00:30,150 --> 01:00:28,720
we found them in one said hospital once

1687
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:30,160
said he wasn't on campus

1688
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:32,160
and the other said he was studying for

1689
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:34,079
exams he didn't know why colgate threw

1690
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,760
him under the bus so

1691
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:37,359
they both denied it but it was in the

1692
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:39,200
hospital we went down there uh well now

1693
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:39,760
he was

1694
01:00:44,309 --> 01:00:43,119
there one was in bad shape we asked to

1695
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,319
interview them

1696
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,240
um i found out through three different

1697
01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:48,880
sources who they were

1698
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:50,880
and that through credible sources that

1699
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:53,119
you know from socorro that lived there a

1700
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:54,400
long time and

1701
01:01:00,630 --> 01:00:57,680
even the bartender who knew lonnie

1702
01:01:01,270 --> 01:01:00,640
was uh a bartender throughout this whole

1703
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:01,280
period

1704
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:03,760
and you know he was the phd graduate of

1705
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:05,200
new mexico tech

1706
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:07,760
so everybody knew everybody and the fact

1707
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,480
that

1708
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,040
if somebody created a hoax it would have

1709
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,280
come out you know you would have said

1710
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,359
years after the any penalties for doing

1711
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:17,119
a hoax would it would have

1712
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,720
exonerated you you would come and say

1713
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:20,480
hey it was me i did it you know

1714
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,240
hiring me for hollywood or whatever the

1715
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:24,880
case that never happened and so

1716
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:27,839
tony and i's investigation we cover all

1717
01:01:31,030 --> 01:01:29,119
these points in the book

1718
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:31,040
closely because i want to give both

1719
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:32,799
sides of the story

1720
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:35,760
i look for every reason for this to be

1721
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:36,480
not

1722
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:39,599
what it looks like it turned out to be

1723
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,599
which was extraterrestrial visitation

1724
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,920
but all the evidence pointed to the fact

1725
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:45,760
that there was no earthly explanation

1726
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:46,079
for

1727
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:48,799
everything that occurred and there's

1728
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:50,000
another

1729
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:57,280
um like a module you know uh

1730
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:00,559
united states text tech um

1731
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:03,520
and what about how what about that one

1732
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,319
i'm sure you've

1733
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:07,200
looked into that one too you mean the

1734
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:08,799
lunar module

1735
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:12,160
we're always even

1736
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:15,280
flying yeah we have a document showing

1737
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:15,599
that

1738
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,400
time but there's a couple of things

1739
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:22,000
wrong with that

1740
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,359
white sands is about 35 miles off of

1741
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:28,000
this public desert you wouldn't have the

1742
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:29,520
top secret

1743
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:33,760
lunar module in socorro when you had

1744
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:36,319
hundreds of thousands of acres of

1745
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:39,359
government property tested on secondly

1746
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:42,480
our research showed that this thing

1747
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,920
didn't even have a test flight on the

1748
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:45,599
day it was cancelled and the only thing

1749
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:47,280
going on at the time of the lunar module

1750
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:49,039
was it was being dropped from a bell

1751
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:50,160
helicopter

1752
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:52,319
by cables to test the internet integrity

1753
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:54,000
of the struts

1754
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:57,039
and the bottom the landing gear of this

1755
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:58,000
was round

1756
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:00,799
and the landing gear of the socorro

1757
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,000
object was triangular

1758
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:04,400
shape so you don't have any flights on

1759
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,920
that day the first flight actually

1760
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:07,760
happened in california far away from

1761
01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:09,680
scoring new mexico

1762
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:12,880
the fact that they used a hydroxide

1763
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:16,079
caustic type of material

1764
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:19,359
to power the engine caused the engine to

1765
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,319
be rebuilt

1766
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,880
every time they tested it because it was

1767
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,000
designed to fly

1768
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,720
in space not in the atmosphere so every

1769
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:28,799
time they tested it it crashed after

1770
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:30,079
about 30 seconds

1771
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:32,079
they had to rebuild the engine and

1772
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,640
certainly couldn't fly for more than

1773
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:36,400
even on the test didn't fly for more

1774
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:37,760
than a minute or so

1775
01:03:41,589 --> 01:03:40,319
and what lonnie zamora recorded flew for

1776
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:41,599
a lot longer than that

1777
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:43,039
at great distances in high school i

1778
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:44,640
think it hovered longer than

1779
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,720
however i mean you know the module

1780
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:48,319
didn't carry two people at a time it

1781
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:49,440
carried one person

1782
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:50,720
everything's wrong about the learner

1783
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:53,119
module and even nasa and hughes aircraft

1784
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:53,760
and everybody

1785
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,119
i have all the documents from the

1786
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:57,599
craigslist file said it wasn't ours we

1787
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:58,960
weren't flying

1788
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,720
hector quintanilla had all the top

1789
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:02,640
secret clearances and since the joint

1790
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:04,160
chief of staffs

1791
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:07,599
the president the cia fbi all wanted

1792
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:08,480
answers

1793
01:04:12,069 --> 01:04:10,559
you had to tell them the truth so

1794
01:04:13,910 --> 01:04:12,079
everything that was told

1795
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,920
through these documents that rob mercer

1796
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:15,680
found through the blue book files are

1797
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:16,559
accurate

1798
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:18,160
they didn't know what the heck was going

1799
01:04:21,270 --> 01:04:20,000
on they had no they could not explain

1800
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:21,280
the vehicle

1801
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:24,319
that landed at that time yeah

1802
01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:27,520
yeah that's great um yeah i mean the the

1803
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:28,480
way the thing

1804
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:31,039
hovered you know in particular is is

1805
01:04:35,029 --> 01:04:32,559
pretty bizarre

1806
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:35,039
and uh i still can't get over the fact

1807
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,799
that it made no sound and then

1808
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:39,280
made a big roar you know i mean it's

1809
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:40,079
just uh

1810
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:42,880
it is baffling how long he said there's

1811
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,640
a tertiary engine

1812
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:46,559
and there's a yeah yeah yeah so this

1813
01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:48,559
thing the egg shape

1814
01:04:51,589 --> 01:04:50,160
i would imagine it came from a larger

1815
01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:51,599
craft and you know but

1816
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:54,480
if it was you know designed to penetrate

1817
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:55,839
the atmosphere

1818
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:58,400
the blue flame was the engine to land

1819
01:05:03,029 --> 01:04:59,920
and operate in space and not

1820
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:03,039
harm anything because the the

1821
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:06,880
gravitational or whatever principles

1822
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:09,359
when they engage the secondary engine so

1823
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:11,359
the engine that cut off when the

1824
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:13,200
blue flame cut off and that thing was

1825
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:15,039
hovering that was a

1826
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:18,000
completely different type of technology

1827
01:05:22,069 --> 01:05:19,520
operating at that point

1828
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:22,079
that maybe was not meant to operate if

1829
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:23,680
they especially knew there was a human

1830
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:25,119
standing near there

1831
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:27,119
so i think they actually kind of like

1832
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:28,720
the travis walden case where they did

1833
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:30,319
something to protect

1834
01:05:33,910 --> 01:05:31,839
an unknown witness that popped out of

1835
01:05:35,589 --> 01:05:33,920
nowhere they weren't expecting

1836
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:35,599
then engaged the secondary engine when

1837
01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:37,520
it was safe to get the hell out of there

1838
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:38,319
and

1839
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:42,079
you know hopefully not be seen

1840
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:44,480
right right um so i'm just letting

1841
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:45,599
people in the chat know

1842
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:47,359
you know we're gonna be taking calls in

1843
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:48,799
the half hour but

1844
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:50,400
if you're in chat and you have a

1845
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:51,920
question please put it in caps so i

1846
01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:53,039
catch it

1847
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:56,640
um and uh you know did

1848
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:59,039
so lonnie at one time you know he

1849
01:06:02,069 --> 01:06:00,240
mentioned the beings but

1850
01:06:04,309 --> 01:06:02,079
later on he thought they were not of

1851
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:04,319
this world which i think is really quite

1852
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:05,520
the statement um

1853
01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:09,280
but i know that money said that

1854
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:12,000
uh you know there were a lot of accounts

1855
01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:12,880
of this

1856
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:16,000
this story that happened and he told his

1857
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:17,200
daughter

1858
01:06:20,309 --> 01:06:19,200
that ray stamford's book was the only

1859
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:20,319
accurate account

1860
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,440
is that right i mean that's um yeah

1861
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:24,720
basically uh

1862
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:27,839
when uh she was asking her father about

1863
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:29,920
the case he pointed to rey's book and

1864
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:31,599
said

1865
01:06:35,109 --> 01:06:33,760
read that he's the only one that got it

1866
01:06:37,670 --> 01:06:35,119
right

1867
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:37,680
and did she did she try to get him to

1868
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:39,119
talk about it and he did not want to

1869
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:39,839
talk

1870
01:06:46,950 --> 01:06:44,000
he spoke to his son extensively about it

1871
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:46,960
really unfortunately his son's not one

1872
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:48,880
to speak about this

1873
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:52,079
too yeah and i confirmed when when we

1874
01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:54,079
were in socorro and we met with her

1875
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,319
i brought that story up because ray told

1876
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:57,920
us that initially and i said

1877
01:07:01,349 --> 01:07:00,079
is this the way this happens she goes

1878
01:07:04,230 --> 01:07:01,359
absolutely

1879
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:04,240
and so when when she asks them lonnie

1880
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,760
pointed to ray's book and goes he's the

1881
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:07,520
only guy that got it right

1882
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:08,640
and he had it right there in his

1883
01:07:13,589 --> 01:07:10,720
bookshelf and

1884
01:07:15,510 --> 01:07:13,599
you know the thing was that when you do

1885
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,520
a book like this and try to find out

1886
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:17,200
what the answer is

1887
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:20,400
the whole behavior behind lonnie and

1888
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:21,119
what happened

1889
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:23,200
after the fact tells a lot it's kind of

1890
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,240
like with

1891
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:26,240
our friend travis we know travis pretty

1892
01:07:31,109 --> 01:07:28,160
well and we know how he's

1893
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:31,119
kind of like a not to be disparaging but

1894
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:32,640
kind of like a deer and a headlights

1895
01:07:36,309 --> 01:07:34,880
after the event sometimes you get the

1896
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:36,319
feeling that the person

1897
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:38,079
really believes that they experience

1898
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:39,760
something that they're telling you

1899
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:42,640
and it may be true and lonnie was the

1900
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:43,280
same way

1901
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:45,359
he changed so much after the incident

1902
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:47,920
that he had a traumatic experience

1903
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,559
that kind of blew his mind away about

1904
01:07:54,829 --> 01:07:52,799
what the way the world was shaped

1905
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,839
and i tried to capture that in the book

1906
01:07:58,150 --> 01:07:56,400
because

1907
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:58,160
you know it's probably one of the most

1908
01:08:00,710 --> 01:08:00,319
neglected close encounters of the third

1909
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:00,720
kind

1910
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:03,599
in the united states history but it's

1911
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,680
one of the most evidential cases

1912
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:07,760
and the more that tony and i dug onto

1913
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,359
this the more we kept

1914
01:08:12,789 --> 01:08:11,520
finding and i got to the point where i

1915
01:08:15,029 --> 01:08:12,799
couldn't put everything in the book

1916
01:08:16,390 --> 01:08:15,039
because i published it myself and i just

1917
01:08:19,590 --> 01:08:16,400
didn't have the funds

1918
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:19,600
to make a 500 page book like our buddy

1919
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:20,080
uh

1920
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,510
reynolds from forest guy that's rules

1921
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:40,960
charles halt i'm sorry

1922
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:44,000
oh yeah yeah he he did a great book but

1923
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:46,719
i go he goes i'm selling it for 50 bucks

1924
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:47,920
i got how much did it cost you to make

1925
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:49,120
he goes 45 i'm like

1926
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:51,359
okay you're not making any money and

1927
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,120
that's that's the way i know

1928
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:55,199
i i remember talking to him about that i

1929
01:08:59,669 --> 01:08:56,799
couldn't believe

1930
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:59,679
that book costing 45 to publish i don't

1931
01:09:02,709 --> 01:09:01,440
make anything off the book the amount of

1932
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:02,719
effort we put into everything

1933
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,400
i really the point of the book was to

1934
01:09:07,749 --> 01:09:06,080
get the stories told straight

1935
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,759
i don't care about money or anything

1936
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:09,359
like that oh and it's in color so it's

1937
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:10,080
expensive

1938
01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:13,279
oh yeah it wasn't gone but contribution

1939
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:16,159
i mean the stories that we uncovered and

1940
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:18,000
the anecdotal stories and the

1941
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,839
research on the ground to me it was

1942
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:21,120
priceless and the

1943
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:24,640
six people who did the um review

1944
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,080
beforehand

1945
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,159
um i reached out to a lot of people they

1946
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:30,080
just were so busy they couldn't get to

1947
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:32,080
it at a time to give me a review

1948
01:09:35,749 --> 01:09:34,000
but everybody i sent it to gave me an

1949
01:09:37,510 --> 01:09:35,759
excellent review which tells me i feel

1950
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:37,520
like i did a good job

1951
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:39,679
of retelling the story that tony and i

1952
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:42,000
have been looking at for five years now

1953
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,920
yes i've been enjoying it as i'm reading

1954
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:45,359
it and someone

1955
01:09:50,470 --> 01:09:49,279
in uh on facebook just asks a question

1956
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,480
basically where can they

1957
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:52,000
they're interested to get this book how

1958
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,759
can they get it

1959
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,760
uh you can go to the ufo guys on

1960
01:10:00,550 --> 01:09:57,600
facebook or you can just

1961
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:00,560
um reach out you can reach out to me on

1962
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,239
facebook ben moss on facebook

1963
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:04,880
or you can just send me an email my

1964
01:10:08,550 --> 01:10:05,600
email

1965
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:08,560
for the uh and we'll figure it out with

1966
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:09,440
the

1967
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:12,480
you know private emails but it's j b

1968
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:17,840
m o s s so j b m jbmoss09

1969
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:20,400
at gmail.com it's one of those gmail

1970
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:22,000
addresses where i had to figure out

1971
01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:26,880
some kind of so jbmos09 gmail.com

1972
01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:29,040
we'll figure out a way to it's 30 bucks

1973
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:30,000
shipped everything

1974
01:10:36,709 --> 01:10:35,040
included um about 250 pages but

1975
01:10:38,390 --> 01:10:36,719
you know it shows all the work that tony

1976
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,400
and i put into this to

1977
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:40,960
tell the story straight and all the

1978
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:42,000
feedback i've gotten

1979
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:44,320
everybody loves the book so far i hope

1980
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:46,159
i'm not being facetious in that way but

1981
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:47,520
that's what everybody told me they could

1982
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:49,440
be lying but i don't think they are

1983
01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:52,239
but uh i i really believe that we've

1984
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:54,320
updated the story to 2020 including the

1985
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,080
craigslist files

1986
01:10:59,669 --> 01:10:58,480
and told the story in a way because

1987
01:11:01,430 --> 01:10:59,679
another reason for

1988
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:01,440
tony and i to jump on this was we've

1989
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:03,280
seen so many tv shows

1990
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:05,600
and other types of portrayals of the

1991
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:06,400
story

1992
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,080
and almost everybody got it wrong the

1993
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:10,000
last show to get this right was ufo

1994
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:10,960
hunters

1995
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:14,960
and sightings from the eight 1980s

1996
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:16,480
that actually did a good depiction of

1997
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:18,239
this everybody else

1998
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,400
has told it terribly wrong with bad

1999
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,760
information so

2000
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:23,440
i wanted to say that there was a great

2001
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:24,960
case in the usa

2002
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:26,960
that happened that was a close encounter

2003
01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:28,800
the third time and you should know the

2004
01:11:32,229 --> 01:11:30,400
true facts of that case

2005
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:32,239
and so that's the five-year journey that

2006
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:34,320
tony and i were on

2007
01:11:39,669 --> 01:11:37,520
yeah um so let's let's talk about

2008
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:39,679
where they got it wrong and and your

2009
01:11:46,950 --> 01:11:44,149
well that's already begun wow a lot of

2010
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:46,960
that had to do with ray stanford i mean

2011
01:11:54,070 --> 01:11:50,640
ray's book was the definitive

2012
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:54,080
thing is race book 79 or 77

2013
01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:57,360
it was 15 000 copies were printed and so

2014
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,040
not a good printing ray got ripped off

2015
01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,120
in every country every country

2016
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:03,120
he's we've seen all the covers and

2017
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:05,440
everything every country reprinted it

2018
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:06,800
and ripped it off and that's

2019
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:07,840
one of the reasons why i'm

2020
01:12:11,270 --> 01:12:10,320
self-publishing with no digital archives

2021
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,280
for this book

2022
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:13,679
you got to get it from me if you want it

2023
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:15,280
not for money reasons but because i

2024
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:16,880
don't want to get ripped off

2025
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:20,480
but the the point is that

2026
01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:23,440
you know you want to fill in something

2027
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:24,320
for example

2028
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:27,520
you know we were on hanger one and the

2029
01:12:30,950 --> 01:12:29,600
way they depicted lonnie's encounter was

2030
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:30,960
a flame thrower

2031
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:32,880
in the middle of all these mountains and

2032
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:34,239
forests

2033
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:35,440
and i was like i don't remember seeing

2034
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:36,960
all these forests and hills last time we

2035
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:38,000
were in the desert

2036
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:40,640
one of the the the first chapter of my

2037
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,400
book is the reason for writing the book

2038
01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:44,400
and when i asked ray

2039
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:46,239
and ray goes why the hell you know i

2040
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:47,520
took out hell but he goes why the hell

2041
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:49,280
are you writing a book about socorro

2042
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:51,760
and i go that's a value very valid

2043
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:52,640
question

2044
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,239
and my reason was because it needs to be

2045
01:12:58,070 --> 01:12:56,640
retold especially with rey's help

2046
01:12:59,830 --> 01:12:58,080
telling the right story because so many

2047
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,840
people got it wrong since then

2048
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:01,679
you know history is told by the winners

2049
01:13:05,350 --> 01:13:03,040
and the losers and

2050
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:05,360
you know in this year especially in 2020

2051
01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:06,480
of fake

2052
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:08,560
news and things like that you want to

2053
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:09,840
tell the story

2054
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:12,080
using the facts as it actually happened

2055
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:13,440
that was my goal

2056
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:16,560
and that's what i think i did and so

2057
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:18,880
with rey's help ray was the only living

2058
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:20,719
person that's still alive that was there

2059
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,120
in 64 invited by dr heineck

2060
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:25,920
to the site he he experienced everything

2061
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:27,600
firsthand

2062
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:28,719
the book couldn't have been written

2063
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:31,199
without tony without rey i mean they

2064
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,080
were integral

2065
01:13:35,510 --> 01:13:34,159
and everything that made this book come

2066
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:35,520
together it's just an

2067
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:37,280
update at this point to try to get the

2068
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:39,600
story straight because there's a lot

2069
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:41,679
i saw a recent show on tv where it said

2070
01:13:45,270 --> 01:13:43,520
it landed on three legs and

2071
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:45,280
i knew the guy that said the words i'm

2072
01:13:48,790 --> 01:13:46,800
like oh my god

2073
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,800
come on dude do a little homework before

2074
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:50,640
you before you start

2075
01:13:53,830 --> 01:13:52,719
saying what's on the teleprompter for

2076
01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:53,840
you you know

2077
01:13:57,189 --> 01:13:55,600
we gotta fix wikipedia too because we

2078
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:57,199
know people that do our work i've done a

2079
01:14:00,229 --> 01:13:58,560
lot of wikipedia work

2080
01:14:01,990 --> 01:14:00,239
it's wrong it's like even on hanger one

2081
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:02,000
when i saw something on the teleprompter

2082
01:14:06,709 --> 01:14:03,360
that wasn't right i'd be like

2083
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:06,719
whoa let's change that perfect

2084
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:08,239
but you know the whole point was to make

2085
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:10,239
the story accurate tell it from lonnie's

2086
01:14:13,990 --> 01:14:11,520
perspective

2087
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:14,000
and tony and i's investigation with

2088
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,760
using rey who's the only living person

2089
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:17,280
that was there at the time

2090
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:18,960
and to get it right you know because

2091
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:20,320
future generations

2092
01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:23,679
they've got a lot to pick from of bs

2093
01:14:27,590 --> 01:14:25,679
that tells the story is wrong but they

2094
01:14:28,709 --> 01:14:27,600
can look at socorro's foster pentagon

2095
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:28,719
pantry

2096
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:31,440
our book and i give kevin props for

2097
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:33,360
encounter the desert he did a good job

2098
01:14:37,030 --> 01:14:33,840
of

2099
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:37,040
happened

2100
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:39,280
so i'm not in competition with anybody

2101
01:14:41,910 --> 01:14:40,320
and you know

2102
01:14:43,510 --> 01:14:41,920
if we certainly don't do this for the

2103
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:43,520
money well you know that's when you

2104
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:43,920
spend

2105
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:46,719
so many years you know doing something

2106
01:14:51,110 --> 01:14:48,719
and you kind of just want to

2107
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,120
put a have a way to finalize it you know

2108
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,800
and be able to put everything together

2109
01:14:55,830 --> 01:14:54,400
especially we have so many people always

2110
01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:55,840
asking us when are you going to

2111
01:14:59,030 --> 01:14:58,159
put a book out yeah when we did a

2112
01:15:01,830 --> 01:14:59,040
presentation

2113
01:15:03,669 --> 01:15:01,840
for kecksburg they asked us to the crowd

2114
01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:03,679
asked us to investigate kextburg and go

2115
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:04,159
well you

2116
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,920
stan gordon has done that you know you

2117
01:15:09,189 --> 01:15:07,600
got to re research

2118
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:09,199
done a great job right you know rick

2119
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,040
stanford did the homework

2120
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:13,199
we just updated it we're not even

2121
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:15,040
reinventing the wheel but

2122
01:15:18,390 --> 01:15:17,120
we owe everything to ray and his work

2123
01:15:20,790 --> 01:15:18,400
when he was there

2124
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:20,800
he showed why this was such an unusual

2125
01:15:23,750 --> 01:15:21,600
event

2126
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:23,760
and pretty much kind of when we met him

2127
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:25,760
and got on the path to do this

2128
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:27,520
it was just an extension of his work

2129
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:29,040
basically and so

2130
01:15:33,030 --> 01:15:31,440
we got a few new stories we got a few

2131
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:33,040
bits of information

2132
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:36,400
and we took away the the hoax

2133
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:39,199
theories with data scientifically

2134
01:15:43,270 --> 01:15:40,080
debated them

2135
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,280
in the book and discounted them for the

2136
01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:45,280
you know the fraud that they are so we

2137
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:47,199
told the story in a way that is backed

2138
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:48,800
up by the science and data

2139
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:50,560
and the investigators that were there at

2140
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:52,480
the time and that was the whole purpose

2141
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:54,400
of the book was to let people go

2142
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:56,640
okay what happened socorro let me read

2143
01:16:03,830 --> 01:15:58,880
this book and i'll get an exact story of

2144
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:07,590
and you know i i had a a text come in

2145
01:16:12,070 --> 01:16:09,360
from someone that's listening and he's

2146
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:12,080
you know not not through the chat but

2147
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:13,440
just a plain text

2148
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,280
um saying you know he doesn't really buy

2149
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:17,520
this as uh he thinks it's uh

2150
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:20,480
our own tech and uh you know i simply

2151
01:16:23,350 --> 01:16:21,440
shot a text back

2152
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:23,360
you know what about the little creatures

2153
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:24,719
why would they be you know

2154
01:16:28,630 --> 01:16:27,280
why would we have tiny people and why

2155
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:28,640
haven't we seen this

2156
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:31,199
thing around if it's if it's our tech

2157
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:32,880
you know he basically said

2158
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:36,000
it was probably a dud but um you know he

2159
01:16:38,790 --> 01:16:37,440
kind of associates it with the cash

2160
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,800
landrum case

2161
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:40,800
and you know do you get do you get that

2162
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:41,840
have you heard that

2163
01:16:47,669 --> 01:16:45,280
one before no i mean i haven't heard

2164
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:47,679
that anyone said the socorro

2165
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:51,120
was um a dud of

2166
01:16:55,110 --> 01:16:53,520
i i don't get the cash london you know

2167
01:16:56,550 --> 01:16:55,120
correlation at all because that was some

2168
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:56,560
type of device that was

2169
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:57,840
definitely radioactive it was very

2170
01:17:01,270 --> 01:17:00,239
radioactive but the fact that you have

2171
01:17:04,070 --> 01:17:01,280
to look at this

2172
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:04,080
the fact that the fbi the caa project

2173
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:04,960
blue book dr

2174
01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:08,080
heineck and everybody else white sands

2175
01:17:13,750 --> 01:17:11,040
and all these bases hectic quinton

2176
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,760
top secret clearance to go to every

2177
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:15,360
single base and find this

2178
01:17:20,390 --> 01:17:18,480
object none of them could solve the case

2179
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:20,400
and this is all in the book

2180
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:22,480
none of them could solve the case

2181
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:24,320
millions of dollars of research with the

2182
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:24,960
entire

2183
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:27,679
defense intelligence agency behind you

2184
01:17:30,550 --> 01:17:28,320
do you think

2185
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,560
they would have reported the result they

2186
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:32,239
found sure they wouldn't call it an

2187
01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:34,640
unknown now if they didn't know it

2188
01:17:37,990 --> 01:17:36,400
they could have come out said a vertical

2189
01:17:39,350 --> 01:17:38,000
takeoff vehicle top secret

2190
01:17:41,030 --> 01:17:39,360
forget about it don't talk about it

2191
01:17:42,149 --> 01:17:41,040
again they never did that which is

2192
01:17:43,830 --> 01:17:42,159
surprising to me

2193
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:43,840
they never came out and said oh we we

2194
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:45,600
know what it was we can't tell you

2195
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:47,120
well let's just talk about the present

2196
01:17:51,350 --> 01:17:49,440
day there is no vertical takeoff vehicle

2197
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:51,360
that uses electromagnetism or plasma

2198
01:17:54,310 --> 01:17:53,040
technology to levitate unless it's

2199
01:17:57,750 --> 01:17:54,320
moving wind beneath it

2200
01:17:59,910 --> 01:17:57,760
yeah everything's pushing wind down

2201
01:18:01,990 --> 01:17:59,920
you know the contributions in the book

2202
01:18:02,790 --> 01:18:02,000
that were very important was i had david

2203
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:02,800
rudiak

2204
01:18:07,750 --> 01:18:06,159
and donald burleson contribute about

2205
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:07,760
radiation

2206
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:13,679
fogged ted jordan's camera had a

2207
01:18:18,149 --> 01:18:15,120
half-life of between

2208
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:18,159
8 and 14 hours and there's not many

2209
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:20,000
radiations like that when you talk about

2210
01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:21,199
isotopes they

2211
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:24,719
they decayed like 128 million years

2212
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:27,120
for half of it and it's still radiation

2213
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,880
radioactive for another 120

2214
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:30,880
million years the shortest half lights

2215
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:32,000
we have

2216
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:33,920
don't correspond to the radiation

2217
01:18:38,950 --> 01:18:35,840
radiation that's left there

2218
01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:38,960
so when you put all the facts together

2219
01:18:42,950 --> 01:18:40,800
the fact that the government actually

2220
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:42,960
said we had no device

2221
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:45,600
operating at this time no vertical

2222
01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:47,040
takeoff vehicle the

2223
01:18:50,070 --> 01:18:49,120
lunar module wasn't operating there was

2224
01:18:52,470 --> 01:18:50,080
nothing else i

2225
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:52,480
in my book i you know we talk about bell

2226
01:18:55,990 --> 01:18:53,199
labs

2227
01:18:57,669 --> 01:18:56,000
hughes laboratory nasa every single

2228
01:19:00,470 --> 01:18:57,679
agency that could create

2229
01:19:01,430 --> 01:19:00,480
a flying vehicle was investigated at

2230
01:19:03,270 --> 01:19:01,440
this time

2231
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:03,280
they all had to report because this came

2232
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:05,040
from the joint chief of staff

2233
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,920
they all had to say it was not ours if

2234
01:19:10,149 --> 01:19:09,600
you want to talk about it go through

2235
01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:10,159
this

2236
01:19:14,790 --> 01:19:12,320
secret liaison and they have all these

2237
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:14,800
documents in the book that showed up on

2238
01:19:19,990 --> 01:19:17,760
uh you know blue book documents and the

2239
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:20,000
craigslist file that rob mercer found

2240
01:19:24,070 --> 01:19:22,000
there was a lot left out of the blue

2241
01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:24,080
files in the background where they

2242
01:19:30,709 --> 01:19:29,990
lockheed martin all the companies that

2243
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:30,719
could

2244
01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:33,360
to design and build craft the time were

2245
01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:34,000
asked

2246
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:36,480
was this yours and every single one of

2247
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:37,920
them had to answer because

2248
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:40,560
it came from the top came from the the

2249
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:42,560
president the joint chief of staff

2250
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:44,159
all said look you can come look at

2251
01:19:48,149 --> 01:19:45,760
everything we have

2252
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:48,159
but we did not build that object and so

2253
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:50,159
in the book we also cover the fact that

2254
01:19:53,110 --> 01:19:51,600
russia china and all these other

2255
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:53,120
countries never came forward and go

2256
01:19:57,189 --> 01:19:56,159
hey look we fooled you 70 years ago 60

2257
01:20:00,790 --> 01:19:57,199
years ago

2258
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:00,800
and it was ours too bad gotcha

2259
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:03,360
and the point that i make in the book is

2260
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:05,280
that we'd all be flying our own personal

2261
01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:06,480
eggs right now

2262
01:20:09,830 --> 01:20:08,239
it's just what exactly we had in the 60s

2263
01:20:11,510 --> 01:20:09,840
i thought the jetsons were

2264
01:20:13,430 --> 01:20:11,520
we're programming us at the time yeah

2265
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:13,440
where where are the flying cars you know

2266
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:14,000
we started

2267
01:20:18,550 --> 01:20:16,400
in cars by then the whole point is that

2268
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:18,560
the tech displayed in 64

2269
01:20:22,390 --> 01:20:21,679
cannot be replicated today and we still

2270
01:20:25,350 --> 01:20:22,400
don't have

2271
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:25,360
elliptical shaped objects except perhaps

2272
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:25,760
the

2273
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,880
armor gumbo or whatever that object was

2274
01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:30,719
that entered our solar system from

2275
01:20:35,830 --> 01:20:32,320
another solar system

2276
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:35,840
circled us and left again that was the

2277
01:20:39,669 --> 01:20:37,360
most interesting thing that i could

2278
01:20:43,510 --> 01:20:39,679
relate to an elliptical shaped object

2279
01:20:45,990 --> 01:20:43,520
that happened last five years or so

2280
01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:46,000
now what about the flames you know that

2281
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:47,040
that part

2282
01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:49,760
um the only other thing i can think of

2283
01:20:53,350 --> 01:20:51,120
is you know the falcon lake

2284
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:53,360
incident but i can't really think of any

2285
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:54,480
ufo

2286
01:21:00,229 --> 01:20:57,440
that's shooting flames out um has that

2287
01:21:03,189 --> 01:21:00,239
ever occurred that you're aware of

2288
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:03,199
the the beams i mean we had the one case

2289
01:21:04,870 --> 01:21:04,560
so i don't know if it's talking like

2290
01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:04,880
that

2291
01:21:08,629 --> 01:21:06,480
over the reservoir where the beams

2292
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:08,639
stopped in mid-air and had kind of a

2293
01:21:12,550 --> 01:21:09,840
funnel shape

2294
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:12,560
the plasma display underneath this core

2295
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:13,360
object

2296
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:14,880
was kind of funnel shaped so it was

2297
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:17,280
wider at the bottom at the top

2298
01:21:23,830 --> 01:21:21,120
but the fact that it irradiated the soil

2299
01:21:26,709 --> 01:21:23,840
knifed into the ground didn't cook

2300
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,719
lonnie or blowing 30 feet in the air

2301
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:28,800
tells you it wasn't propulsion it was

2302
01:21:34,470 --> 01:21:31,760
some type of subatomic material

2303
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:34,480
going to light speed into the ground to

2304
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:36,719
lift what was estimated in a nine

2305
01:21:40,709 --> 01:21:38,960
ton object from the impressions in the

2306
01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:40,719
ground they estimated a nine time

2307
01:21:45,430 --> 01:21:43,440
object that came in at an angle so to

2308
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:45,440
lift that type of object the thrust

2309
01:21:49,189 --> 01:21:46,480
required

2310
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:49,199
would have killed lonnie and decimated

2311
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:50,639
everything in the area

2312
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:53,520
so the blue flame was unusual and i have

2313
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:54,639
that in the book the

2314
01:21:59,990 --> 01:21:57,840
the two papers i have about the

2315
01:22:01,030 --> 01:22:00,000
uh i don't even understand the paper

2316
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:01,040
myself you know

2317
01:22:07,990 --> 01:22:04,320
you read it uh what don burleson is a

2318
01:22:09,910 --> 01:22:08,000
phd scientist describes as a radiation

2319
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:09,920
unless you're a phd scientist you might

2320
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:11,440
not understand it but basically saying

2321
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:12,000
this

2322
01:22:16,149 --> 01:22:13,920
the radiation that was displayed at the

2323
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:16,159
site is not earthly at all

2324
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:18,159
for for it to have a half-life of eight

2325
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:19,199
to ten hours

2326
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:20,960
because ted jordan who always carried a

2327
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:23,120
camera took pictures right away

2328
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:24,719
he got the reward back from the

2329
01:22:29,590 --> 01:22:26,880
government followed by radiation

2330
01:22:30,629 --> 01:22:29,600
we have heineken on the tape that ray

2331
01:22:32,470 --> 01:22:30,639
has

2332
01:22:33,750 --> 01:22:32,480
saying that we've shown in our

2333
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:33,760
presentation

2334
01:22:37,510 --> 01:22:35,600
for the 12 seconds we were allowed

2335
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:37,520
saying that indeed the film was followed

2336
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:38,960
by radiation

2337
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,360
but then the next morning there was no

2338
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:43,199
radiation so for a half light to

2339
01:22:46,229 --> 01:22:44,880
disappear that quickly

2340
01:22:48,870 --> 01:22:46,239
you're talking about an exotic

2341
01:22:53,030 --> 01:22:48,880
propulsion from some type of engine

2342
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:53,040
that is way beyond our comprehension

2343
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:56,719
wow well um and let's see i think

2344
01:22:59,990 --> 01:22:58,239
what i'm going to do is we have a

2345
01:23:01,510 --> 01:23:00,000
question that came up it's kind of it's

2346
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:01,520
totally unrelated

2347
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:04,320
but uh to our topic but i still uh told

2348
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:06,000
people i would ask a question and they

2349
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:07,199
want to know what you

2350
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:10,719
uh do you want disclosure

2351
01:23:18,149 --> 01:23:14,960
or do you enjoy the ufo mystery as it is

2352
01:23:20,550 --> 01:23:18,159
i've never heard that question before

2353
01:23:21,669 --> 01:23:20,560
one disclosure we love this topic um i

2354
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,679
have to say

2355
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:24,000
i i must say i do not want disclosure

2356
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:25,440
because i don't believe it would be

2357
01:23:30,629 --> 01:23:28,639
true if it was does that make any sense

2358
01:23:32,709 --> 01:23:30,639
why don't you elaborate on that a little

2359
01:23:33,510 --> 01:23:32,719
uh there's no you don't trust that it

2360
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:33,520
would be true

2361
01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:35,520
there's no yeah i do not if there was

2362
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:37,360
disclosure and by that i mean

2363
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:39,440
you know everyone's uh fantasy

2364
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:41,040
disclosures the government comes out

2365
01:23:43,590 --> 01:23:41,920
admits

2366
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,600
you know that all these things we've

2367
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:45,520
been seeing on television are true yada

2368
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:48,239
yada we were wrong

2369
01:23:51,669 --> 01:23:50,159
i don't see that happening there's just

2370
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:51,679
literally no

2371
01:23:57,430 --> 01:23:55,760
logical reasoning for it

2372
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:57,440
at the end of the day all they're going

2373
01:24:01,590 --> 01:23:59,600
to do is suffer panic and

2374
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:01,600
probably hysterian riots and things like

2375
01:24:06,390 --> 01:24:04,320
this who knows what

2376
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,400
lost control well i you know some people

2377
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:08,400
would argue that we've been kind of

2378
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:11,440
getting eased you're right

2379
01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:12,880
that we've been kind of getting eased

2380
01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:15,120
into it

2381
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:17,360
and i've posted this on facebook much to

2382
01:24:22,870 --> 01:24:18,400
the you know

2383
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:22,880
chagrin of many people disclosure

2384
01:24:27,430 --> 01:24:25,760
is a disinformation tactic that has

2385
01:24:30,310 --> 01:24:27,440
worked for many years

2386
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:30,320
disclosure is the carrot they dangle in

2387
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:31,600
front of you

2388
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:34,159
and this is for the ancient alien crowd

2389
01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:36,239
it's just out of reach you can almost

2390
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:38,400
grasp it but you're always just missing

2391
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:39,120
it

2392
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:44,960
there is no carrot there is no

2393
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:45,920
disclosure

2394
01:24:51,830 --> 01:24:50,239
to lead you down rabbit holes

2395
01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:51,840
to think that there's an answer coming

2396
01:24:55,990 --> 01:24:54,639
up the fact is they don't know what the

2397
01:24:58,070 --> 01:24:56,000
hell they're talking about they don't

2398
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:58,080
know what it is they can't even describe

2399
01:25:02,390 --> 01:25:00,000
it they they're baffled they don't want

2400
01:25:03,669 --> 01:25:02,400
to tell you that so the last thing the

2401
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:03,679
government's going to do is go look

2402
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:05,120
there's something happening they might

2403
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:05,760
be

2404
01:25:11,590 --> 01:25:10,239
on our greatest government properties

2405
01:25:12,149 --> 01:25:11,600
and there's nothing we can do about it

2406
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:12,159
but

2407
01:25:15,590 --> 01:25:13,760
hey you don't worry about it it's no big

2408
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,600
deal that is the last thing that will

2409
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:17,679
ever happen so disclosure

2410
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:21,360
is a front a disinformation program

2411
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:24,239
to let you believe that you're going to

2412
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:25,760
be safe

2413
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:27,920
and that some greater power is going to

2414
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:29,520
bring us to salvation

2415
01:25:37,350 --> 01:25:33,040
it's it's all bs well

2416
01:25:40,470 --> 01:25:39,270
and and because you know we've seen it

2417
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:40,480
over and over again

2418
01:25:43,750 --> 01:25:43,280
you know from from such a long time ago

2419
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:43,760
and

2420
01:25:46,790 --> 01:25:45,679
you know i heard uh john greenwald the

2421
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:46,800
other night on

2422
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:48,159
coast to coast i didn't agree with

2423
01:25:51,270 --> 01:25:49,760
everything he said but he said something

2424
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:51,280
along that line

2425
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:54,000
where we've seen this before you know

2426
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:55,199
and he doesn't hold

2427
01:25:59,590 --> 01:25:57,440
um you know he doesn't hold any faith

2428
01:26:02,709 --> 01:25:59,600
that you know it's going to happen

2429
01:26:05,910 --> 01:26:02,719
um here's a question from the chat

2430
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:05,920
and uh does the tic tac ufo resemble the

2431
01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:08,480
socorro object it's similar right

2432
01:26:12,629 --> 01:26:11,280
i mean just on the ends well considering

2433
01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,639
the fact that none of us saw it

2434
01:26:17,350 --> 01:26:14,159
firsthand

2435
01:26:24,390 --> 01:26:19,110
uh well there yeah but i'm saying we

2436
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:26,310
i'm talking about socorro we were not in

2437
01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:27,600
1964

2438
01:26:31,590 --> 01:26:29,199
watching what lonnie saw so there's no

2439
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,600
telling if that is the exact same crap

2440
01:26:35,270 --> 01:26:33,760
it could resemble it on any other level

2441
01:26:36,870 --> 01:26:35,280
sure but i don't know

2442
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:36,880
the thing is and tony's right when

2443
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:38,880
you're talking about an egg-shaped craft

2444
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:40,480
if it moves at high speed it might look

2445
01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:42,480
like a tic-tac it might look like a

2446
01:26:44,709 --> 01:26:44,080
streak it might look like a telephone

2447
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:44,719
pole

2448
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:47,120
but what i was what what i was telling

2449
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:49,120
you what i was reiterating was

2450
01:26:52,149 --> 01:26:50,639
remember that little object that you

2451
01:26:52,709 --> 01:26:52,159
didn't see when i was like oh i didn't

2452
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:52,719
see that

2453
01:26:56,550 --> 01:26:55,360
yeah right when we were at socorro tony

2454
01:26:58,470 --> 01:26:56,560
we were filming

2455
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:58,480
but i wasn't obviously in the right

2456
01:27:03,030 --> 01:27:00,800
direction but an object was ground

2457
01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:03,040
training i could see it coming

2458
01:27:06,229 --> 01:27:05,440
and i play i've played professional

2459
01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:06,239
tennis i can

2460
01:27:09,430 --> 01:27:08,400
track an object moving fast this thing

2461
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:09,440
was probably i

2462
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:11,840
figured it out later it's like maybe 4.5

2463
01:27:14,709 --> 01:27:12,719
seconds

2464
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:14,719
but it came ground terrain so it was

2465
01:27:18,149 --> 01:27:16,080
lifting and

2466
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:18,159
elevating and then it disappeared and

2467
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:19,679
went over the berm where we were at

2468
01:27:23,270 --> 01:27:21,600
sakura and went out of sight

2469
01:27:24,709 --> 01:27:23,280
and i swear to god it looked like a tic

2470
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:24,719
tac but it was only about

2471
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:28,000
this big and i think that maybe because

2472
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:29,360
it was moving so fast

2473
01:27:33,830 --> 01:27:31,440
it was blurred and i don't know the true

2474
01:27:35,110 --> 01:27:33,840
shape but these tic tacs that the

2475
01:27:36,629 --> 01:27:35,120
guys are seeing if they saw it

2476
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:36,639
stationary it looked like a tic tac

2477
01:27:39,750 --> 01:27:37,760
that's one thing

2478
01:27:41,430 --> 01:27:39,760
but you're really close to describing

2479
01:27:44,229 --> 01:27:41,440
egg-shaped objects

2480
01:27:46,149 --> 01:27:44,239
and the the thing with these objects is

2481
01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:46,159
maybe they project what you want to see

2482
01:27:49,590 --> 01:27:47,440
or what's more comfortable

2483
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,600
for you to see so if you're more

2484
01:27:54,149 --> 01:27:50,960
comfortable seeing than

2485
01:27:55,750 --> 01:27:54,159
a 747 than a flying saucer and maybe

2486
01:27:58,709 --> 01:27:55,760
they'll make it a little more

2487
01:28:00,629 --> 01:27:58,719
you know it's it's it's kind of like you

2488
01:28:01,430 --> 01:28:00,639
get into freud and the observer and the

2489
01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:01,440
observed

2490
01:28:05,189 --> 01:28:03,280
you getting to the point where what if

2491
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:05,199
the the thing you're observing knows

2492
01:28:08,629 --> 01:28:06,400
what you're

2493
01:28:10,390 --> 01:28:08,639
looking at and then adjust accordingly

2494
01:28:13,189 --> 01:28:10,400
to not freak you out

2495
01:28:15,270 --> 01:28:13,199
and so a lot of these ufo observations

2496
01:28:16,790 --> 01:28:15,280
seem to kind of go along that path

2497
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:16,800
especially when you get into deductions

2498
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:18,719
and things like that but it seems like

2499
01:28:21,270 --> 01:28:20,080
they can understand everything that's

2500
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:21,280
going through your mind

2501
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:24,239
every emotion you're having and try on

2502
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:25,760
the one hand try to make it easier on

2503
01:28:29,350 --> 01:28:27,600
the other hand we have reports where

2504
01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:29,360
it's the most horrible experience on

2505
01:28:31,910 --> 01:28:31,199
earth and you know if you look at the

2506
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:31,920
brazilian

2507
01:28:37,990 --> 01:28:34,960
ufo encounters and things like that

2508
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:38,000
we have a ray uh we have the uh call-in

2509
01:28:41,189 --> 01:28:38,960
is ready

2510
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:41,199
um and that number is eight five five

2511
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:42,000
four seven two

2512
01:28:45,910 --> 01:28:43,520
five four eight three if anyone wants to

2513
01:28:48,790 --> 01:28:45,920
call into the show and uh we have

2514
01:28:53,030 --> 01:28:48,800
uh actually ray stanford on the phone

2515
01:28:56,070 --> 01:28:55,669
uh it's my fault hang on hang on here we

2516
01:28:59,110 --> 01:28:56,080
go

2517
01:29:03,830 --> 01:28:59,120
ray welcome to the show

2518
01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:03,840
hi good to be here hi ray hey ray

2519
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:07,360
hi tony and ben i saw a question pop up

2520
01:29:10,870 --> 01:29:09,120
on the screen i couldn't resist calling

2521
01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:10,880
in on and said did ray get a photo

2522
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:12,320
of the object of our mountains in the

2523
01:29:17,510 --> 01:29:14,960
background did you did you just see it

2524
01:29:18,709 --> 01:29:17,520
well uh i did not get a photo but i

2525
01:29:21,510 --> 01:29:18,719
showed them a photo

2526
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,520
that let me explain how it happened uh

2527
01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:23,440
when i had been to sacral

2528
01:29:28,229 --> 01:29:25,440
and i went back to phoenix i had my

2529
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:28,239
films processed at a local photo lab

2530
01:29:32,629 --> 01:29:30,800
and when they made copies they didn't do

2531
01:29:34,709 --> 01:29:32,639
a good job of cleaning the negative

2532
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:34,719
and amazingly they left something on the

2533
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:36,719
negative that when the prints

2534
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:39,120
resulted and ben and tony have seen it

2535
01:29:42,550 --> 01:29:41,040
it really looked like there's a girl

2536
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:42,560
object out there over

2537
01:29:45,669 --> 01:29:45,360
the mountains uh uh looking to the west

2538
01:29:50,470 --> 01:29:45,679
but

2539
01:29:52,629 --> 01:29:50,480
uh uh everybody was enthusiastic and uh

2540
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:52,639
but i i said wait we got a hold on i've

2541
01:29:55,669 --> 01:29:54,080
got to find the original negative and

2542
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:55,679
see if this is real

2543
01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:58,080
finally after two years i dug through

2544
01:30:01,590 --> 01:29:58,719
the uh

2545
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:01,600
the massive ufo evidences i have here

2546
01:30:07,350 --> 01:30:03,520
and i found the original negative

2547
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:07,360
and it's not on the negative it was a

2548
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:09,280
just stuff on the the picture that that

2549
01:30:10,950 --> 01:30:10,480
that shouldn't have been there if they'd

2550
01:30:13,750 --> 01:30:10,960
had

2551
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:13,760
a clean negative so we can forget that

2552
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:14,639
but i wonder

2553
01:30:17,910 --> 01:30:16,480
that i would like to share very briefly

2554
01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:17,920
here uh

2555
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:21,360
14 years after the zocoro event

2556
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:24,320
i had received an alert from a scientist

2557
01:30:28,310 --> 01:30:25,440
at white sands

2558
01:30:29,830 --> 01:30:28,320
about ufo activity out there and we

2559
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:29,840
saddled up our mobile

2560
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:32,400
ufo tracking lab we headed out and i

2561
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:34,159
want to get into what happened

2562
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:35,679
when we got to white sands where he

2563
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:37,280
asked to come but

2564
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:39,360
one day we were in phoenix some days

2565
01:30:43,430 --> 01:30:40,639
later and

2566
01:30:44,709 --> 01:30:43,440
i'd like to just describe the fact that

2567
01:30:47,750 --> 01:30:44,719
in broad daylight

2568
01:30:49,510 --> 01:30:47,760
i and and robert dunham

2569
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:49,520
and my former wife kitty boat now my

2570
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:51,520
president my wife of 34 years

2571
01:30:56,950 --> 01:30:54,800
but we were driving north of phoenix

2572
01:30:58,390 --> 01:30:56,960
and we had a mobile lab the back doors

2573
01:31:01,669 --> 01:30:58,400
unfortunately have been locked on

2574
01:31:03,030 --> 01:31:01,679
on the silverado vehicle and they're

2575
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:03,040
supposed to been unlocked

2576
01:31:07,030 --> 01:31:06,000
believe it or not off to the right of

2577
01:31:09,669 --> 01:31:07,040
the uh

2578
01:31:10,629 --> 01:31:09,679
uh highway going north from phoenix the

2579
01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:10,639
interstate

2580
01:31:14,550 --> 01:31:12,560
in an area that would stick with shoya

2581
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:14,560
cactus which you don't want to run into

2582
01:31:17,830 --> 01:31:17,040
and it wasn't greased with bushes like

2583
01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:17,840
it's a coral

2584
01:31:20,950 --> 01:31:19,760
but there was a ravine over there and

2585
01:31:23,669 --> 01:31:20,960
believe it or not

2586
01:31:24,550 --> 01:31:23,679
we all three saw an object shaped

2587
01:31:26,470 --> 01:31:24,560
exactly

2588
01:31:28,070 --> 01:31:26,480
like the squirrel object broad daylight

2589
01:31:30,470 --> 01:31:28,080
within a few hundred feet

2590
01:31:31,350 --> 01:31:30,480
take off out of the ravine now there was

2591
01:31:33,830 --> 01:31:31,360
a difference

2592
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:33,840
we didn't see a blue column of bright

2593
01:31:37,189 --> 01:31:34,719
light or

2594
01:31:38,310 --> 01:31:37,199
hear a ring sound from it but it went

2595
01:31:41,350 --> 01:31:38,320
off vertically

2596
01:31:44,149 --> 01:31:41,360
but the difference was remarkable the

2597
01:31:45,590 --> 01:31:44,159
surface of this thing was so black that

2598
01:31:47,510 --> 01:31:45,600
if you were to hit it with a bright

2599
01:31:49,270 --> 01:31:47,520
light you'd have to hit it probably at a

2600
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:49,280
narrow bleak angle to even see any

2601
01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:50,800
reflection off of it because

2602
01:31:54,790 --> 01:31:53,040
it's like it absorbed all the light this

2603
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:54,800
thing took off vertically like it's a

2604
01:31:57,350 --> 01:31:55,440
coil

2605
01:31:58,550 --> 01:31:57,360
shaped exactly like it and i'd say was

2606
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:58,560
the same size

2607
01:32:03,110 --> 01:32:01,199
and it took off and made a turn to the

2608
01:32:05,189 --> 01:32:03,120
west across the highway

2609
01:32:07,270 --> 01:32:05,199
when he got in front of a big thunder

2610
01:32:10,550 --> 01:32:07,280
head was up in the direction of prescott

2611
01:32:11,669 --> 01:32:10,560
a white cloud something remarkable

2612
01:32:14,629 --> 01:32:11,679
happened

2613
01:32:15,350 --> 01:32:14,639
around this black object which was not

2614
01:32:16,870 --> 01:32:15,360
uh

2615
01:32:18,709 --> 01:32:16,880
its body was not orange in the direction

2616
01:32:19,990 --> 01:32:18,719
of travel but off several degrees of the

2617
01:32:22,709 --> 01:32:20,000
direction of travel

2618
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:22,719
out the forward end there looked like a

2619
01:32:26,870 --> 01:32:23,600
spinning

2620
01:32:28,470 --> 01:32:26,880
glowing blue let's call it a cobweb

2621
01:32:30,229 --> 01:32:28,480
or like you had a caterpillar inside

2622
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:30,239
weaving a cocoon

2623
01:32:33,910 --> 01:32:32,719
and this thing just spiraled around it

2624
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:33,920
from front to back

2625
01:32:38,229 --> 01:32:36,639
and covered it with a blue white glow

2626
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:38,239
which made it harder to say against

2627
01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:40,960
god and we're battling to get the keys

2628
01:32:43,110 --> 01:32:42,400
and get the back doors open and take

2629
01:32:44,790 --> 01:32:43,120
pictures

2630
01:32:46,950 --> 01:32:44,800
we didn't get time we didn't get good

2631
01:32:49,030 --> 01:32:46,960
pictures until later in the day

2632
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:49,040
but i just wanted people to know that

2633
01:32:52,550 --> 01:32:50,320
the three of us

2634
01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:52,560
uh my father and wife and robert dunn

2635
01:32:56,950 --> 01:32:54,960
and i saw in broad daylight

2636
01:32:59,110 --> 01:32:56,960
at within a few hundred feet something

2637
01:33:01,110 --> 01:32:59,120
that really looked like the score object

2638
01:33:03,030 --> 01:33:01,120
except for the color change and ben had

2639
01:33:03,510 --> 01:33:03,040
mentioned earlier the possibility they

2640
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:03,520
can

2641
01:33:06,790 --> 01:33:05,360
affect the surface appearance of these

2642
01:33:08,709 --> 01:33:06,800
things well this thing sure

2643
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:08,719
looked like the square object but it was

2644
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:10,480
black so um

2645
01:33:14,390 --> 01:33:12,800
i'm going to leave it at that unless

2646
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:14,400
then or somebody wants to ask me a

2647
01:33:17,430 --> 01:33:15,840
question about this or

2648
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:17,440
make a comment otherwise i'll get out of

2649
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:19,840
your hair

2650
01:33:24,149 --> 01:33:21,520
i have anything to ask ray why do you

2651
01:33:26,229 --> 01:33:24,159
have them or ray i actually mentioned

2652
01:33:28,709 --> 01:33:26,239
your encounter in the book i didn't i

2653
01:33:32,070 --> 01:33:28,719
didn't go into detail because

2654
01:33:33,910 --> 01:33:32,080
of uh the fact that

2655
01:33:35,750 --> 01:33:33,920
if i included everything i wanted to

2656
01:33:38,790 --> 01:33:35,760
include it would probably

2657
01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:38,800
bankrolled me but uh i did include the

2658
01:33:43,990 --> 01:33:41,520
fact that you had witnessed these events

2659
01:33:46,470 --> 01:33:44,000
and um you know trying to get interest

2660
01:33:48,390 --> 01:33:46,480
in you know people asking a question

2661
01:33:50,070 --> 01:33:48,400
to find out what actually happened

2662
01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:50,080
because that's a whole of the story unto

2663
01:33:52,709 --> 01:33:50,719
itself

2664
01:33:55,430 --> 01:33:52,719
it just verifies the fact that there

2665
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:55,440
were unusual objects

2666
01:33:59,270 --> 01:33:57,440
in this area for a long time i mean

2667
01:33:59,830 --> 01:33:59,280
ray's encounter with these objects which

2668
01:34:03,669 --> 01:33:59,840
he

2669
01:34:07,030 --> 01:34:03,679
told us in detail are incredible and so

2670
01:34:09,350 --> 01:34:07,040
it just goes along the line that in this

2671
01:34:11,750 --> 01:34:09,360
area of the united states a lot of

2672
01:34:15,510 --> 01:34:11,760
unusual things happen

2673
01:34:17,510 --> 01:34:15,520
around military bases we have not

2674
01:34:18,790 --> 01:34:17,520
probably coincidentally but the fact

2675
01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:18,800
that

2676
01:34:26,550 --> 01:34:23,280
ray has further documentation to

2677
01:34:29,110 --> 01:34:26,560
support unusual aerial phenomena

2678
01:34:33,110 --> 01:34:29,120
in this area regardless the time frame

2679
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:33,120
is very important

2680
01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:36,400
let me mention one thing for me uh just

2681
01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:38,960
and close with this this event that we

2682
01:34:43,109 --> 01:34:39,840
saw

2683
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:43,119
was 14 years and uh let's say april may

2684
01:34:46,470 --> 01:34:44,080
june july

2685
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:46,480
and four months approximately after the

2686
01:34:49,669 --> 01:34:47,760
sakura event

2687
01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:49,679
but the fact that here was a thing that

2688
01:34:53,510 --> 01:34:51,520
looked exactly like score object except

2689
01:34:55,510 --> 01:34:53,520
for the color which it changed color

2690
01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:55,520
uh really makes me feel that we're

2691
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:57,280
looking at something persistent across

2692
01:34:59,830 --> 01:34:58,000
time

2693
01:35:02,229 --> 01:34:59,840
and i want people people to keep in mind

2694
01:35:04,149 --> 01:35:02,239
that uh if this were a secret craft as

2695
01:35:06,950 --> 01:35:04,159
some people were alleging

2696
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:06,960
in all these years 50 however many years

2697
01:35:09,430 --> 01:35:07,280
since

2698
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:09,440
the coral we would have learned about it

2699
01:35:11,510 --> 01:35:11,040
it wouldn't have been kept secret that

2700
01:35:13,669 --> 01:35:11,520
long

2701
01:35:14,550 --> 01:35:13,679
we not only didn't have then but we do

2702
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:14,560
not have now

2703
01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:16,880
something that can behave as a choral

2704
01:35:22,229 --> 01:35:19,280
object so i'm going to

2705
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:22,239
get out of here and let your guests uh

2706
01:35:24,310 --> 01:35:22,639
uh

2707
01:35:27,109 --> 01:35:24,320
get back talking whatever they'd like to

2708
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:27,119
and thanks for listening folks

2709
01:35:30,229 --> 01:35:28,639
all right hey ray thanks for the call

2710
01:35:32,470 --> 01:35:30,239
ray thank you

2711
01:35:34,390 --> 01:35:32,480
so the uh lines open that number again

2712
01:35:37,189 --> 01:35:34,400
is eight five five four seven two

2713
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:37,199
five four eight three and uh bill will

2714
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:37,760
take your

2715
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:40,800
calls in over there and uh

2716
01:35:45,590 --> 01:35:43,600
yeah well i i was glad a ray called and

2717
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:45,600
actually that's where i met you

2718
01:35:49,030 --> 01:35:47,520
uh tony you and ben for the first time

2719
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:49,040
is that racism

2720
01:35:52,229 --> 01:35:51,520
uh and rey's uh well i won't say his

2721
01:35:54,149 --> 01:35:52,239
attic his

2722
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:54,159
uh third floor up there or was the

2723
01:35:57,430 --> 01:35:55,360
second floor i can't remember

2724
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:57,440
it was like 900 degrees it was really

2725
01:36:03,510 --> 01:35:59,840
warm yeah

2726
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:03,520
yeah uh yeah what what uh a great source

2727
01:36:08,070 --> 01:36:05,760
of uh files and things uh

2728
01:36:08,950 --> 01:36:08,080
amazing stuff in in that house yeah it's

2729
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:08,960
tremendous

2730
01:36:13,270 --> 01:36:11,280
it's uh every time we go there it's it's

2731
01:36:16,709 --> 01:36:13,280
like pandora's box

2732
01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:16,719
yeah yeah i'm sure um so

2733
01:36:21,510 --> 01:36:19,840
as far as uh this this case

2734
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:21,520
what are some of the other uh there's

2735
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:23,600
ben he's back

2736
01:36:27,350 --> 01:36:26,480
what are some of the other um things you

2737
01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:27,360
have

2738
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,600
uh you know discovered that's not been

2739
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:31,520
talked about before i know you you

2740
01:36:36,070 --> 01:36:33,280
talked about the woman that saw

2741
01:36:38,229 --> 01:36:36,080
this and you know the albuquerque uh

2742
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:38,239
river or whatever that was canal

2743
01:36:42,149 --> 01:36:39,840
um but are there some other things

2744
01:36:44,870 --> 01:36:42,159
you've uncovered because i know you did

2745
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:44,880
you said you dug through uh new

2746
01:36:48,709 --> 01:36:46,800
newspaper clippings and you know you

2747
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:48,719
were in the area four times

2748
01:36:52,070 --> 01:36:51,600
um and interviews did you get to

2749
01:36:54,149 --> 01:36:52,080
interview

2750
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:54,159
more people than i know you mentioned

2751
01:37:00,310 --> 01:36:55,920
that one person

2752
01:37:03,350 --> 01:37:00,320
yeah we we got to uh

2753
01:37:06,870 --> 01:37:03,360
a gentleman that had run into

2754
01:37:09,910 --> 01:37:06,880
uh lonnie i think we talked about the

2755
01:37:11,669 --> 01:37:09,920
radiation but we also had a gentleman

2756
01:37:15,030 --> 01:37:11,679
patrick richard

2757
01:37:18,229 --> 01:37:15,040
who had um moved to the area

2758
01:37:21,350 --> 01:37:18,239
he was a architect i'm not an architect

2759
01:37:23,350 --> 01:37:21,360
a archaeologist sorry and he um

2760
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:23,360
had moved to socorro and he was also an

2761
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:25,360
artist and if you go to

2762
01:37:31,270 --> 01:37:28,320
the local where the police station used

2763
01:37:33,270 --> 01:37:31,280
to be located which is now the museum

2764
01:37:35,109 --> 01:37:33,280
there's a portrait of lonnie that

2765
01:37:38,229 --> 01:37:35,119
patrick richard did

2766
01:37:41,430 --> 01:37:38,239
and so i met him through the internet

2767
01:37:43,990 --> 01:37:41,440
as we were talking about this story

2768
01:37:44,550 --> 01:37:44,000
i'm sorry i can't remember exactly how

2769
01:37:48,149 --> 01:37:44,560
we actually

2770
01:37:48,790 --> 01:37:48,159
interacted but it turns out he's the

2771
01:37:52,070 --> 01:37:48,800
person

2772
01:37:53,430 --> 01:37:52,080
that uh had drawn the portrait for

2773
01:37:55,990 --> 01:37:53,440
lonnie that hangs

2774
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:56,000
in the old police station he had moved

2775
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:57,040
to socorro

2776
01:38:03,270 --> 01:38:00,080
and he met with lonnie several times and

2777
01:38:05,109 --> 01:38:03,280
in my longest chapter which is about the

2778
01:38:07,510 --> 01:38:05,119
socorro symbol that tony and i

2779
01:38:09,669 --> 01:38:07,520
investigated a great detail

2780
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:09,679
simply because it was not important to

2781
01:38:12,629 --> 01:38:11,840
get the symbol right but to understand

2782
01:38:15,270 --> 01:38:12,639
the whole

2783
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:15,280
process of why it's so complicated

2784
01:38:20,310 --> 01:38:17,840
patrick had a great story about that

2785
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:20,320
so he had met lonnie several times and

2786
01:38:23,270 --> 01:38:22,239
had told lonnie he was doing a portrait

2787
01:38:25,510 --> 01:38:23,280
and lonnie

2788
01:38:26,310 --> 01:38:25,520
would always turn down breakfast but

2789
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:26,320
would uh

2790
01:38:30,310 --> 01:38:28,080
always accept coffee which i'm kind of

2791
01:38:31,109 --> 01:38:30,320
the same way you know i always want to

2792
01:38:33,270 --> 01:38:31,119
eat but i'll

2793
01:38:34,629 --> 01:38:33,280
i'll never turn down coffee i should be

2794
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:34,639
on seinfeld's comedians

2795
01:38:37,990 --> 01:38:36,719
getting coffee but anyway make a long

2796
01:38:40,310 --> 01:38:38,000
story short

2797
01:38:41,270 --> 01:38:40,320
he met with lonnie several times and one

2798
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:41,280
of the occasions

2799
01:38:46,629 --> 01:38:44,400
he was there he he drew

2800
01:38:49,030 --> 01:38:46,639
the fake symbol on the real symbol on a

2801
01:38:51,910 --> 01:38:49,040
napkin and presented to lonnie

2802
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:51,920
and lonnie kind of offhandedly looked

2803
01:38:55,910 --> 01:38:54,080
away and pointed to

2804
01:38:58,070 --> 01:38:55,920
what he said was the correct symbol

2805
01:39:01,109 --> 01:38:58,080
which was not the

2806
01:39:03,830 --> 01:39:01,119
fake symbol that's promoted to this day

2807
01:39:05,189 --> 01:39:03,840
so that's another example of just

2808
01:39:07,350 --> 01:39:05,199
running into somebody

2809
01:39:10,149 --> 01:39:07,360
and he turned me onto gordy hicks and

2810
01:39:13,750 --> 01:39:10,159
gordy hicks when tony and i investigated

2811
01:39:16,870 --> 01:39:13,760
turns out his mom was a

2812
01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:16,880
uh a documented um

2813
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:20,400
had a degree in photography

2814
01:39:24,870 --> 01:39:22,400
and gordy hicks was on the board at

2815
01:39:28,149 --> 01:39:24,880
socorro at the time he was a kid

2816
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:28,159
but his mom had been grabbed by the

2817
01:39:32,229 --> 01:39:30,000
apparently the fbi

2818
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:32,239
and taken to the site and taken all

2819
01:39:34,950 --> 01:39:34,000
these photographs like

2820
01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:34,960
probably three or four hundred

2821
01:39:41,750 --> 01:39:38,320
photographs from every angle imaginable

2822
01:39:43,910 --> 01:39:41,760
and then the the what um when i talked

2823
01:39:45,189 --> 01:39:43,920
to gordy recently for the book he said

2824
01:39:46,390 --> 01:39:45,199
like they were

2825
01:39:49,270 --> 01:39:46,400
they didn't tell me where they're from

2826
01:39:50,870 --> 01:39:49,280
but they all had suits on that's fbi

2827
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:50,880
or cia one or the other it doesn't

2828
01:39:53,750 --> 01:39:52,400
really matter they're both working with

2829
01:39:56,950 --> 01:39:53,760
each other

2830
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:56,960
so they knew that his mom was one of the

2831
01:40:00,950 --> 01:39:58,960
few women in the world that actually had

2832
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:00,960
a degree in photography

2833
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:04,560
plus she had her own development studio

2834
01:40:07,830 --> 01:40:06,080
in her house

2835
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:07,840
so once the photographs were taken they

2836
01:40:12,790 --> 01:40:10,080
all followed her to her house

2837
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:12,800
developed these photographs and not a

2838
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:14,159
single one of them has seen a light if

2839
01:40:16,709 --> 01:40:14,560
they

2840
01:40:18,390 --> 01:40:16,719
sense that well it was a great story

2841
01:40:18,950 --> 01:40:18,400
because i talked to gauri personally and

2842
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:18,960
he

2843
01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:26,800
one thing i want to definitely point out

2844
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:27,280
was

2845
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:29,600
tony and i are visiting socorro great

2846
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:30,400
people

2847
01:40:37,510 --> 01:40:34,400
great city incredibly friendly

2848
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:37,520
very nice as as i was told many times

2849
01:40:41,590 --> 01:40:40,080
people have lived there almost all their

2850
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:41,600
lives the only people left were the

2851
01:40:44,229 --> 01:40:42,719
transient

2852
01:40:46,709 --> 01:40:44,239
students that came in and came out with

2853
01:40:48,470 --> 01:40:46,719
degrees but most people that grew up

2854
01:40:48,790 --> 01:40:48,480
there liked it so much they stayed there

2855
01:40:50,790 --> 01:40:48,800
so

2856
01:40:52,070 --> 01:40:50,800
a lot of the people that were there

2857
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:52,080
during the incident

2858
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:54,560
recorded their incidents with us uh

2859
01:40:59,270 --> 01:40:57,280
during lonnie zamora's ufo encounter

2860
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:59,280
so it's just one of those things where

2861
01:41:01,109 --> 01:41:00,560
you can actually it's kind of like a

2862
01:41:03,109 --> 01:41:01,119
twilight

2863
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:03,119
zone episode where you go back in time

2864
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,639
to see your childhood

2865
01:41:08,870 --> 01:41:06,560
you can actually visit socorro and kind

2866
01:41:11,910 --> 01:41:08,880
of get a glimpse of what it was like

2867
01:41:12,470 --> 01:41:11,920
you know 40 50 60 years ago if you do

2868
01:41:16,070 --> 01:41:12,480
visit

2869
01:41:17,430 --> 01:41:16,080
eat bodega steakhouse

2870
01:41:19,350 --> 01:41:17,440
you found a good place to eat that's

2871
01:41:22,470 --> 01:41:19,360
good uh what about the

2872
01:41:25,189 --> 01:41:22,480
physical evidence of this

2873
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,199
of this case you know you had the burnt

2874
01:41:28,390 --> 01:41:26,639
creosote or

2875
01:41:29,990 --> 01:41:28,400
whatever you just called them earlier

2876
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:30,000
bushes uh but

2877
01:41:33,030 --> 01:41:32,159
um you know there was that scrape on the

2878
01:41:35,669 --> 01:41:33,040
rock

2879
01:41:36,310 --> 01:41:35,679
um do you think that when people got

2880
01:41:39,990 --> 01:41:36,320
there

2881
01:41:42,149 --> 01:41:40,000
earlier that they may have taken um

2882
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:42,159
you know some more i don't think so in

2883
01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:44,000
fact it was ray stanford who

2884
01:41:47,590 --> 01:41:45,440
noticed the most important piece of

2885
01:41:50,950 --> 01:41:47,600
evidence which was a rock

2886
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:50,960
that was had shavings of metal from the

2887
01:41:55,189 --> 01:41:51,760
foot

2888
01:41:59,109 --> 01:41:55,199
of this craft on the rock itself

2889
01:42:00,950 --> 01:41:59,119
and he was able to get this rock

2890
01:42:02,470 --> 01:42:00,960
unfortunately the biggest piece of metal

2891
01:42:05,669 --> 01:42:02,480
had fallen off during

2892
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:05,679
transit uh getting it to goddard um

2893
01:42:09,830 --> 01:42:08,000
where um i'm sure ben will mention this

2894
01:42:13,189 --> 01:42:09,840
in a few minutes here where dr frankel

2895
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:13,199
was one of the key people involved in

2896
01:42:15,590 --> 01:42:14,080
investigating

2897
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:15,600
this strange metal and getting it

2898
01:42:19,750 --> 01:42:17,440
analyzed

2899
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:19,760
yeah ray told me that story uh

2900
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:21,040
personally it's really

2901
01:42:25,030 --> 01:42:23,679
disheartening but go ahead let's hear it

2902
01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:25,040
actually lonnie that

2903
01:42:31,109 --> 01:42:28,480
lonnie identified

2904
01:42:32,870 --> 01:42:31,119
there were four landing impressions from

2905
01:42:34,709 --> 01:42:32,880
the four landing gear

2906
01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:34,719
and lonnie had noticed the rock was

2907
01:42:41,350 --> 01:42:37,040
broken they all walked over and

2908
01:42:44,870 --> 01:42:41,360
and ray being you know ray is very sharp

2909
01:42:48,149 --> 01:42:44,880
uh even at his age now he's

2910
01:42:50,629 --> 01:42:48,159
he hadn't lost his step but he uh

2911
01:42:52,470 --> 01:42:50,639
he looked down and noticed that there

2912
01:42:54,229 --> 01:42:52,480
was a rock that was broken by one of the

2913
01:42:54,550 --> 01:42:54,239
landing struts that apparently scraped

2914
01:42:57,830 --> 01:42:54,560
down

2915
01:43:01,030 --> 01:42:57,840
and left some material in it and so

2916
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:01,040
when lonnie pointed it out and he and dr

2917
01:43:04,709 --> 01:43:03,280
heineck were standing there ray realized

2918
01:43:05,189 --> 01:43:04,719
that nobody was going to do anything so

2919
01:43:07,030 --> 01:43:05,199
he goes

2920
01:43:08,310 --> 01:43:07,040
uh dr heineck it's time to get back to

2921
01:43:16,790 --> 01:43:08,320
the

2922
01:43:18,390 --> 01:43:16,800
got back in his car and drove back to

2923
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:18,400
the site and grabbed the rock

2924
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:21,119
and that's a whole other story i detail

2925
01:43:26,470 --> 01:43:23,360
it in great detail in the book

2926
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:26,480
about the metal it's just

2927
01:43:32,629 --> 01:43:29,600
it's one of those stories where you give

2928
01:43:35,109 --> 01:43:32,639
metal to a scientific community

2929
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:35,119
if it's what you hope it is it becomes

2930
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:37,440
classified you'll never see it again

2931
01:43:41,990 --> 01:43:40,320
and and the story turns out badly and

2932
01:43:42,310 --> 01:43:42,000
that's what's happened with the metal

2933
01:43:48,310 --> 01:43:42,320
from

2934
01:43:49,910 --> 01:43:48,320
hit by the strut the the one thing the

2935
01:43:51,510 --> 01:43:49,920
few things that we know was it was

2936
01:43:54,550 --> 01:43:51,520
probably

2937
01:43:55,830 --> 01:43:54,560
a zinc iron alloy that was combined in

2938
01:43:58,629 --> 01:43:55,840
such a way that it

2939
01:44:00,629 --> 01:43:58,639
didn't conform to any charts on earth

2940
01:44:04,070 --> 01:44:00,639
but it was also non-corrosive so

2941
01:44:06,310 --> 01:44:04,080
i think the gist of it was if this was

2942
01:44:08,470 --> 01:44:06,320
painted on the outside of a strut

2943
01:44:09,350 --> 01:44:08,480
it wouldn't corrode due to anything kind

2944
01:44:11,910 --> 01:44:09,360
of like gold

2945
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:11,920
nothing affects gold and so it would be

2946
01:44:15,590 --> 01:44:14,000
an excellent coating for a strut landing

2947
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:15,600
on a rugged surface

2948
01:44:19,430 --> 01:44:17,520
it seems like this craft was designed to

2949
01:44:20,310 --> 01:44:19,440
land on a rugged surface it reminds me

2950
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:20,320
of the

2951
01:44:26,229 --> 01:44:24,400
craft we sent them the comets and and

2952
01:44:27,750 --> 01:44:26,239
you know moving objects that we try to

2953
01:44:31,270 --> 01:44:27,760
land on they have to have these

2954
01:44:33,830 --> 01:44:31,280
kind of claws that grip it and hang on

2955
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:33,840
and you know the one thing about this

2956
01:44:37,910 --> 01:44:35,679
craft was it landed at an

2957
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:37,920
angle according to all the details we

2958
01:44:43,109 --> 01:44:39,840
have and so it seemed to have like

2959
01:44:44,070 --> 01:44:43,119
the four gear that landed were ready to

2960
01:44:45,910 --> 01:44:44,080
grab a surface

2961
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,920
because they probably weren't sure what

2962
01:44:50,470 --> 01:44:48,000
they were landing on

2963
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:50,480
yeah definitely interesting you know the

2964
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:52,480
whole story ray's book just set the

2965
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:54,000
standard for

2966
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:56,719
so many paths to follow to figure out

2967
01:44:59,590 --> 01:44:57,600
what happened

2968
01:45:01,189 --> 01:44:59,600
and a lot of them ended dead ends which

2969
01:45:02,629 --> 01:45:01,199
is what happens when the government gets

2970
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:02,639
involved

2971
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:05,760
yeah now did he ever did he ever notice

2972
01:45:10,470 --> 01:45:07,440
when this thing lifted up did the

2973
01:45:12,870 --> 01:45:10,480
landing gear stay stationary

2974
01:45:13,750 --> 01:45:12,880
i believe it retracted because it raised

2975
01:45:16,709 --> 01:45:13,760
up

2976
01:45:17,590 --> 01:45:16,719
he never it never came out i mean when i

2977
01:45:19,669 --> 01:45:17,600
i went through

2978
01:45:20,629 --> 01:45:19,679
in great detail all the reports that

2979
01:45:23,669 --> 01:45:20,639
lonnie made

2980
01:45:25,430 --> 01:45:23,679
and and never did he say he saw a

2981
01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:25,440
retract

2982
01:45:28,709 --> 01:45:28,080
it just at one point he saw the craft

2983
01:45:30,629 --> 01:45:28,719
leaving

2984
01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:30,639
and he didn't notice the struts anymore

2985
01:45:35,669 --> 01:45:32,560
because in a lot of the documentary

2986
01:45:36,390 --> 01:45:35,679
he says he saw two landing gear well

2987
01:45:37,669 --> 01:45:36,400
obviously

2988
01:45:40,550 --> 01:45:37,679
he couldn't see the other side of the

2989
01:45:41,910 --> 01:45:40,560
craft so he was being honest he saw two

2990
01:45:43,109 --> 01:45:41,920
because he was facing the crowds at a

2991
01:45:45,350 --> 01:45:43,119
certain angle

2992
01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:45,360
but there were two on the other side and

2993
01:45:48,550 --> 01:45:46,320
so

2994
01:45:49,430 --> 01:45:48,560
um he just wasn't paying attention i

2995
01:45:51,590 --> 01:45:49,440
mean the fact that

2996
01:45:52,709 --> 01:45:51,600
the roar went off he hit the ground his

2997
01:45:54,390 --> 01:45:52,719
army training he thought

2998
01:45:55,990 --> 01:45:54,400
him was going to blow up i mean

2999
01:45:58,229 --> 01:45:56,000
everything is

3000
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:58,239
it makes sense you would do the same

3001
01:46:00,470 --> 01:45:59,679
thing unless you weren't trained you

3002
01:46:02,149 --> 01:46:00,480
just stand there

3003
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:02,159
with your mouth open looking kind of

3004
01:46:06,149 --> 01:46:04,400
drooling on yourself going what the hell

3005
01:46:07,830 --> 01:46:06,159
but lonnie hit the ground his head

3006
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:07,840
turned away from the object as he was

3007
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:08,719
trained

3008
01:46:13,189 --> 01:46:12,000
and it took off and so it's just one of

3009
01:46:15,510 --> 01:46:13,199
those things where

3010
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:15,520
with the one witness to the actual event

3011
01:46:20,470 --> 01:46:17,199
itself you have to pretty much

3012
01:46:22,550 --> 01:46:20,480
go by his blow-by-blow

3013
01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:22,560
description of what happened and i think

3014
01:46:26,629 --> 01:46:24,880
he was pretty accurate

3015
01:46:29,270 --> 01:46:26,639
yeah one of the one of the things that's

3016
01:46:31,430 --> 01:46:29,280
a little puzzling too and i never really

3017
01:46:35,030 --> 01:46:31,440
understood it maybe you can clear it up

3018
01:46:38,229 --> 01:46:35,040
is uh at first the the two

3019
01:46:40,950 --> 01:46:38,239
beings uh seem startled

3020
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:40,960
that they see him or or you know and and

3021
01:46:43,270 --> 01:46:41,520
then

3022
01:46:44,870 --> 01:46:43,280
next thing you know he says he doesn't

3023
01:46:45,430 --> 01:46:44,880
see them anymore like they got up in the

3024
01:46:49,109 --> 01:46:45,440
craft

3025
01:46:51,109 --> 01:46:49,119
but he didn't consistently watch them

3026
01:46:52,950 --> 01:46:51,119
and see what they were doing and like

3027
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:52,960
crawl up a ladder or anything like that

3028
01:46:57,189 --> 01:46:54,960
there's really rough orlani's car was

3029
01:46:58,790 --> 01:46:57,199
situated in order for him to continue

3030
01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:58,800
moving towards

3031
01:47:03,189 --> 01:47:01,440
uh where the craft was was landed he had

3032
01:47:06,629 --> 01:47:03,199
to be very careful with his car

3033
01:47:07,350 --> 01:47:06,639
because even today uh as many times as

3034
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:07,360
cars

3035
01:47:10,629 --> 01:47:10,239
have driven on this dirt road if you

3036
01:47:14,470 --> 01:47:10,639
will

3037
01:47:16,709 --> 01:47:14,480
it's really rough so back then before

3038
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:16,719
many cars at all were there i'm sure it

3039
01:47:19,350 --> 01:47:17,520
was even fire

3040
01:47:21,669 --> 01:47:19,360
and a brand new car it was probably even

3041
01:47:22,070 --> 01:47:21,679
rougher and our first trip there ben was

3042
01:47:23,830 --> 01:47:22,080
standing

3043
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:23,840
he had his foot on a cactus and he

3044
01:47:26,310 --> 01:47:25,760
didn't even know it pulls his foot off

3045
01:47:28,550 --> 01:47:26,320
and they're

3046
01:47:29,350 --> 01:47:28,560
they're not cactus needles stuck in

3047
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:29,360
there so

3048
01:47:33,430 --> 01:47:31,760
you know his tires and the sharp rocks

3049
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:33,440
and all these things by the time he got

3050
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:35,360
to that crap he probably looked back up

3051
01:47:38,790 --> 01:47:37,360
again is what i imagine he started

3052
01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:38,800
collecting information again

3053
01:47:44,870 --> 01:47:41,920
yeah here's here's the dichotomy that

3054
01:47:45,510 --> 01:47:44,880
you know a lot of our research is based

3055
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:45,520
off of

3056
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:47,360
ray said but i have to be open to the

3057
01:47:52,229 --> 01:47:50,080
opportunity to listen to other people

3058
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:52,239
and when mike moore the physical

3059
01:47:57,270 --> 01:47:53,199
scientist

3060
01:47:59,669 --> 01:47:57,280
who uh lonnie ran into in a gift store

3061
01:48:01,270 --> 01:47:59,679
and took actually took to the site

3062
01:48:02,709 --> 01:48:01,280
because he was concerned about radiation

3063
01:48:04,870 --> 01:48:02,719
because he saw the

3064
01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:04,880
badge that michael moore had and i

3065
01:48:08,390 --> 01:48:06,880
checked out michael he's a physical

3066
01:48:11,830 --> 01:48:08,400
scientist radiation

3067
01:48:14,390 --> 01:48:11,840
new mexico tech university so ray

3068
01:48:16,310 --> 01:48:14,400
i'm sorry lonnie took him to the site

3069
01:48:16,790 --> 01:48:16,320
and the description that i have in the

3070
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:16,800
book

3071
01:48:19,830 --> 01:48:18,800
sounds like lonnie said look i didn't

3072
01:48:22,790 --> 01:48:19,840
tell anybody

3073
01:48:23,350 --> 01:48:22,800
but i drove a lot further and saw a lot

3074
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:23,360
more

3075
01:48:27,510 --> 01:48:26,080
of the creatures before i decided to get

3076
01:48:31,750 --> 01:48:27,520
out of the car

3077
01:48:34,310 --> 01:48:31,760
and that that is in itself tells me

3078
01:48:35,669 --> 01:48:34,320
that if true and it's only a story but

3079
01:48:38,149 --> 01:48:35,679
it's true would explain

3080
01:48:39,910 --> 01:48:38,159
lonnie's fright because he probably got

3081
01:48:41,750 --> 01:48:39,920
to the point where he realized he wasn't

3082
01:48:42,550 --> 01:48:41,760
looking at humans anymore it was

3083
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:42,560
something

3084
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:44,880
entirely different but the fact that he

3085
01:48:49,669 --> 01:48:46,400
took michael moore

3086
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:49,679
a phd radiation scientist

3087
01:48:53,750 --> 01:48:51,520
to the site and said here's where i was

3088
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:53,760
i didn't tell people i was standing here

3089
01:48:58,390 --> 01:48:56,560
here's where they were located did i get

3090
01:48:59,030 --> 01:48:58,400
was there the possibility i got cancer

3091
01:49:01,669 --> 01:48:59,040
from this

3092
01:49:03,189 --> 01:49:01,679
and as a detail in the book you know

3093
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:03,199
michael says look

3094
01:49:06,310 --> 01:49:04,960
the symptoms you would have had would

3095
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:06,320
have showed up by now

3096
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,560
i'm pretty sure you didn't get radiation

3097
01:49:12,550 --> 01:49:10,400
but he details the encounter

3098
01:49:14,709 --> 01:49:12,560
and for the fact that lonnie took him to

3099
01:49:16,470 --> 01:49:14,719
the site and told him where he was and

3100
01:49:19,589 --> 01:49:16,480
oriented the car and everything

3101
01:49:21,830 --> 01:49:19,599
is just tells you that in 19 it was like

3102
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:21,840
very close to when before line he passed

3103
01:49:25,430 --> 01:49:23,280
away unfortunately

3104
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:25,440
that lonnie was still concerned about

3105
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:26,639
cancer

3106
01:49:32,470 --> 01:49:30,000
and to stay sure of what lonnie died of

3107
01:49:33,990 --> 01:49:32,480
but uh indications where it wasn't

3108
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:34,000
related to this incident but he was

3109
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:35,440
still concerned that he got

3110
01:49:40,229 --> 01:49:38,159
uh radiated and that is just the actions

3111
01:49:42,229 --> 01:49:40,239
of somebody that

3112
01:49:44,229 --> 01:49:42,239
still knew what happened to him or

3113
01:49:46,310 --> 01:49:44,239
wasn't making up a story

3114
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:46,320
wow interesting well we're right near

3115
01:49:50,790 --> 01:49:48,320
the end of our show here so

3116
01:49:52,550 --> 01:49:50,800
again why don't you throw out uh well

3117
01:49:53,510 --> 01:49:52,560
first of all the title it's like a very

3118
01:49:56,550 --> 01:49:53,520
long title

3119
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:56,560
the title of the book the title

3120
01:50:00,390 --> 01:49:57,920
you know i actually have to look at it

3121
01:50:02,310 --> 01:50:00,400
remember because i believe it

3122
01:50:03,830 --> 01:50:02,320
it was ray helped me with the title

3123
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:03,840
because i had uh

3124
01:50:07,830 --> 01:50:05,760
not of this earth but the title is not

3125
01:50:11,030 --> 01:50:07,840
of this world this 1964

3126
01:50:13,430 --> 01:50:11,040
socorro ufo of humanoids witness

3127
01:50:14,310 --> 01:50:13,440
policeman lonnie zamora and the reason

3128
01:50:17,430 --> 01:50:14,320
for all that is

3129
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:17,440
i didn't digitize it because all my

3130
01:50:20,229 --> 01:50:18,719
friends that have written books that

3131
01:50:21,910 --> 01:50:20,239
went digital got ripped off

3132
01:50:23,270 --> 01:50:21,920
lip ray got ripped off in multiple

3133
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:23,280
languages

3134
01:50:26,709 --> 01:50:25,040
i have all the keywords for a search but

3135
01:50:29,510 --> 01:50:26,719
the only way you can get to the book is

3136
01:50:30,470 --> 01:50:29,520
you got to contact me so if you want to

3137
01:50:32,629 --> 01:50:30,480
reach out to me

3138
01:50:34,629 --> 01:50:32,639
on facebook or get the book i'll

3139
01:50:36,629 --> 01:50:34,639
certainly send it to you

3140
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:36,639
it's just a way to protect the integrity

3141
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:39,119
of the knowledge and not have it show up

3142
01:50:41,669 --> 01:50:39,440
in

3143
01:50:42,950 --> 01:50:41,679
you know multiple countries under some

3144
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:42,960
ridiculous name

3145
01:50:46,950 --> 01:50:45,760
because rey is in detail told us how

3146
01:50:48,870 --> 01:50:46,960
badly i ripped off

3147
01:50:50,709 --> 01:50:48,880
and i feel horrible for what happened to

3148
01:50:53,030 --> 01:50:50,719
him because i think it sold hundreds of

3149
01:50:57,589 --> 01:50:53,040
thousands of copies in other countries

3150
01:50:59,430 --> 01:50:57,599
whereas 15 000 copies of that book so

3151
01:51:00,629 --> 01:50:59,440
we learned a lot the good and the bad

3152
01:51:03,750 --> 01:51:00,639
from ray was

3153
01:51:06,950 --> 01:51:03,760
how to do things right and how to

3154
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:06,960
protect yourself yeah yeah right

3155
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:09,199
well excellent guys thank you uh thank

3156
01:51:12,629 --> 01:51:10,080
you very much

3157
01:51:14,550 --> 01:51:12,639
for uh being on the show tonight um it

3158
01:51:17,750 --> 01:51:14,560
was a real pleasure to see you too again

3159
01:51:19,350 --> 01:51:17,760
thanks guys appreciate it

3160
01:51:21,030 --> 01:51:19,360
yeah yeah you gotta get a haircut sooner

3161
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,040
or later all right

3162
01:51:25,030 --> 01:51:23,199
you guys take care all right thanks all

3163
01:51:27,189 --> 01:51:25,040
right yeah bye

3164
01:51:28,229 --> 01:51:27,199
all right everyone so that is it for our

3165
01:51:31,830 --> 01:51:28,239
show this evening

3166
01:51:34,149 --> 01:51:31,840
and um next week we will be back

3167
01:51:35,109 --> 01:51:34,159
with uh tom reed he's going to be

3168
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:35,119
talking more

3169
01:51:38,870 --> 01:51:38,320
we had tom warner on a while back tom

3170
01:51:41,910 --> 01:51:38,880
reed

3171
01:51:44,709 --> 01:51:41,920
uh was talking about the

3172
01:51:45,750 --> 01:51:44,719
uh well what's called now the berkshires

3173
01:51:48,149 --> 01:51:45,760
ufos

3174
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:48,159
uh the episode on netflix on the

3175
01:51:52,390 --> 01:51:49,760
unsolved mysteries

3176
01:51:53,669 --> 01:51:52,400
um episode five great uh great one if

3177
01:51:56,950 --> 01:51:53,679
you haven't watched it yet

3178
01:51:59,589 --> 01:51:56,960
um so he's gonna be talking about um his

3179
01:52:01,350 --> 01:51:59,599
experience and uh he has been talking

3180
01:52:04,229 --> 01:52:01,360
about this all along

3181
01:52:05,910 --> 01:52:04,239
i had actually talked with tom reed

3182
01:52:08,470 --> 01:52:05,920
before i had no idea there were

3183
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:08,480
other witnesses so anyway he'll be on

3184
01:52:12,189 --> 01:52:09,280
next week

3185
01:52:13,589 --> 01:52:12,199
so remember to go check out our website

3186
01:52:15,830 --> 01:52:13,599
podcastufo.com

3187
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:15,840
and our facebook page and thanks again